The Biggest Loser in 7th ed.

[DrBored]

So, the articles are coming out all over the place. 7th edition, with it's two ways of building lists... You either go Battle-Forged and get bonuses, or you go Unbound and throw the FOC out the window.

But who is the biggest loser here? Is it the tournament player that is hoping for more structure? Is it the casual player that doesn't want to have to deal with peoples' shenanigans? Is it the budget player that only has so much to spend on an army, and loses to those who have more to spend?

Honestly, it's not a type of player, but a type of person that is going to lose out the most. It's 'That Guy'. We all know who that guy is. He's the guy that brings 3 Riptides in a list to teach the new guy with his fluffy Vostroyan list how to play the game. He's the first to pick up a 3rd Heldrake. He makes it seem like no big deal as he gloats when he wins, and then throws a fit about how unbalanced something is when he loses.

When 7th edition comes out, the 'That Guy'ness of players is going to come out. 'Those Guys' are going to be the first ones to come up with the craziest things, he most WAAC lists that you could come up with on whatever budget they currently have, and they are going to be the ones pushing for tournaments to allow it.

Tournaments are going to be fine, while I'm mentioning it. TO's will just throw out the rules for Unbound and the bonuses for Battle-Forged, and we'll be right where we were, until something else comes along that proves that Unbound isn't so bad, or something. Tournament players, even WAAC players, will still have a place, as hard as GW may try otherwise.

The casual players will be fine too. They will get to use aspects of their collection that they would never have been able to fit in a list before, and create fluffier lists that will be relatively easy to convince their opponents to play. After all, if it's a fluff list w/o bonuses versus a regular list with extra bonuses, that's not so hard a sell to set up a table right?

No, the biggest loser will be 'That Guy'. Nobody *really* wanted to play with him before, but now they will simply flat out refuse until he conforms to the desires of whatever club he's at. Only 'Those Guys' should really worry about 7th edition, because their 'That Guy'ness will be really tempted, and the bottom line is that nobody likes 'That Guy'. If you do, you're probably 'That Guy' yourself.

Who do you think will be the biggest loser in 7th edition? Who do you think will gain the most? I think mature, casual gamers will gain the most out of 7th edition, the people that don't have to worry about time constraints in a tournament setting, allowing them the leisure of setting up and testing out the new rules the way they were meant to be played. The Unbound lists will be kept in check by people's maturity and wallets. Casual gamers don't typically spend hundreds of dollars on the biggest kits just to roflstomp baby seals. I think those people will gain the most out of this edition, and I'm frankly looking forward to it.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

Nobody loses. GW are just taking the 'we don't want to place artificial restrictions on you' mantra to a logical conclusion - removing them, but offering perks for having a more organised force.

Me? More choice, more options, more variety, more fun. And yes, more money, but then precious little comes for free in this world.

[daboarder]

while I still am not going to fork out that much cash for an edition that probably wont last 2 years you make good points.

But its far to early to tell one way or another whether these changes will be good or bad.

[Charon]

"That guy" is in the same position as he was before. You could always opt out if he throw 3 Riptides at you. Nothing changed here.
The biggest losers are gamers with smaller income. While 6th ed went a bit in the "pay to win" direction, 7th is going full retard on that. And im not even talking about the extreme monster lists but more of the one-sided fluff lists.
Wanna field a fluffy tank company? Better make sure your buddies spend enough money on high S weapons, or you will have a pretty one-sided game or even end up with no one wanting to play your list.
You dont need "that guy" as a boogieman because you will become "that guy" for other people, unless you restrict your army... which makes "unbound" not really unbound.. more of unbound-restricted

[Mr Mystery]

I think they're inherently neutral.

Organised events will remain organised, and bring their own tweaks to the table.

Pick up games will still be by consent. Whether or not I have to use the FoC renders me neither more or less likely to decline facing 5 Knight Titans, for instance.

Storm in a tea cup.

Or don't people talk to each other anymore?

[daboarder]

they talk, but when you have to travel up to an hour away for a game, you can only take so much, changing it when you get there is not easy therefore a community standard is required.

[Mr Mystery]

'TFG' is defined by paying to win, to a certain extent. I could quite easily afford 'unbeatable' armies. Every month if I gave up other social events.

But why would I? I enjoy winning a game sure, but I prefer to do so having felt something of a challenge.

Anyone who simply pays to win is by definition TFG.

- - - Updated - - -

they talk, but when you have to travel up to an hour away for a game, you can only take so much, changing it when you get there is not easy therefore a community standard is required.

Nonsense.

Digital age. E-mail exists. Telephones - We've had them for some time now.

Phone venue ahead. Let them know you're coming, and that you're looking for a game, and that you'd rather it was X than it was Y.

Issue?

[Charon]

Nonsense.

Digital age. E-mail exists. Telephones - We've had them for some time now.

Phone venue ahead. Let them know you're coming, and that you're looking for a game, and that you'd rather it was X than it was Y.

Issue?

No issue if you play the same guys over and over again. Larger game clubs still exist outside of your garage.
And even then. This completely defeats the "bring what you want" principle if it comes down to "bring what your opponent is personally ok with"
Consent is the keyword and with consent everything was possible before. Wanna field a terminator army? Sure thing if both agree why not. 100 % possible in all editions.
This "unbound" is just a tool you give "that guy" to legalize his monstrosity without consent. Sure you can opt out (as in every edition before) but now you also get issues with new players "sure you can take what you like but you should not..."

[Mr Mystery]

Every game requires consenting opponent though. Always has, always will.

Don't like the player? Don't play them. This hasn't changed that one iota.

Whether TFG is tied to the FoC or not, they'll aways gravitate towards whatever they feel gives them the best advantage.

But the vast, vast majority of gamers are not TFG, or anything like him.

Me? I want to create an unbound Chaos Cultist heavy list, featuring a great many Dark Apostles. I may add in the odd IG Tank 'liberated' from the PDF.

This could be as simple as my old idea of a Chaos army using IG and SM models, to represent the Alpha Legion arriving on a planet and just messing stuff up. After all, when an Astartes turns up and says that bloke over there is a heretic, you gonna investigate, or do as the nice 7' tall, Emperor's ultimate killing machine says?

If we held back from stuff because of what the mouthbreathing lowest common demoniators might do, we'd never get anything fun done ever.

[daboarder]

Nonsense.

Digital age. E-mail exists. Telephones - We've had them for some time now.

Phone venue ahead. Let them know you're coming, and that you're looking for a game, and that you'd rather it was X than it was Y.

Issue?

but when you have to travel up to an hour away for a game, you can only take so much, changing it when you get there is not easy therefore a community standard is required.