The Biggest Loser in 7th ed.

[Tannarak]

As I've posted this somewhere else, (I forget where), what will the differences be between fantasy and 40k? Movement and ?
If fantasy is declining, any ideas on what is causing it? Why make 40k closer to fantasy if that's the case? Is 40k heading in the same direction?

I guess I'll have to wait until the end of the month to find out.

[Mr Mystery]

Psychology, Movement, additional combat resolution, additional dice modifiers.

It's nowt that couldn't be introduced to 40k, or taken away from Warhammer though.

[deinol]

As I've posted this somewhere else, (I forget where), what will the differences be between fantasy and 40k? Movement and ?
If fantasy is declining, any ideas on what is causing it? Why make 40k closer to fantasy if that's the case? Is 40k heading in the same direction?

I guess I'll have to wait until the end of the month to find out.

The rules of fantasy aren't why fantasy is less popular. It's simply the theme. People like space soldiers and tanks more than cavalry and pikemen.

Edit: Although I must admit cost is also a major factor. You can field a 2k space marine army with less figures than one unit of skaven. Admittedly you can also field large blobs in 40k, but fewer armies expect that, and the average model count in a standard fantasy army is higher overall.

[Lord Asterion]

I'd say WFB declining is because of the rules, its because they removed unit size caps, this changed the game to be about bigger and bigger units, I love WFB but I pine for the days when I could play with 20 Orc units and 30 Goblin Archers was a lot in a unit. If one person takes massive units, then everyone else has to, and because each unit needs to be in a tray, its not like you can chop and change at the drop of a hat.

I love the game and when I play and we agree to be sensible with unit sizes, its great fun, but as soon as someone has a mob of 60 skaven, its unbeatable unless you follow suit.

Unit sizes would help the game but limit sales.

[DarkLink]

The rules of fantasy aren't why fantasy is less popular. It's simply the theme. People like space soldiers and tanks more than cavalry and pikemen.

In your opinion. I've thought about playing fantasy before, then decided I hated a lot of the rules, and I've got several friends who've done the same. A lot of the fantasy game mechanics they've ported over are my least favorite parts of 40k. Not that this is the case with everyone, I'm sure, but why are you so certain that rules aren't a factor?

[Gleipnir]

Alot of this gnashing of teeth over Unbound is sort of silly since we don't even know what the system looks like in the rules yet.

For example if only Battleforged armies recieve a Warlord and a Warlord trait and Unbound armies automatically surrender the victory points for Slay the Warlord to the opposing team, would we see this much angst. Lets wait and see what the two systems offer first.

[John Bower]

I'll admit, right off the bat as soon as I read the 'no FoC restrictions' my first reaction was... That's it then, 40k has had it, I'll stick with 6th for the foreseeable. But I've discussed it with folks (in person with friends and on FB) and you know, I think I can see some welcome options for at least 1 of my armies. My Dark Eldar always lose to my Necrons; always without fail. The problem being is they are quite a fluffy all female mostly wych list. That can be hard when my Crons have lots of vehicles and firepower (they are probably my only reasonably competitive army; built on the 'it needs to be good' basis) and tend to shoot the DE apart on turn 2 at most. Now a zero FoC for the DE just may help them out here, letting them take some serious firepower without worrying about troops so much.

The cards, objective cards that is - yeah, that idea I do find quite exciting; the idea of a fluid game of 40k where the objectives are constantly changing just like some real battles is good for the narrative people particularly, and may balance it a bit for the tourney players if used right.
The psychic phase - now this I'm not sold on I admit. I have a friend I play against who takes an inconsolately long time over his turns. Now if we have to start rolling dice at the start of the psychic phase, then again to see what wonderfully pricey model we have to replace our psyker with; then to do/take wounds.. That's going to take ages to do. I'd rather Perils had stayed just as it was, you screw up, you take a wound and move on. Not start rolling to see what money GW can get out of you now.

[deinol]

In your opinion. I've thought about playing fantasy before, then decided I hated a lot of the rules, and I've got several friends who've done the same. A lot of the fantasy game mechanics they've ported over are my least favorite parts of 40k. Not that this is the case with everyone, I'm sure, but why are you so certain that rules aren't a factor?

I guess its because I started playing when the rules were practically the same. Certainly they have diverged (and then remerged in some areas) since then.

It may be that the current Fantasy rules aren't as good as some other version. I really couldn't say. I can say that 40k has always seemed more popular to me. And the few sales figures I've seen (which admittedly are a small sample) seem to reinforce that. Everything I've heard is that for at least the last decade, 40k outsells Fantasy at least 3-1. There must be a reason for this, since it seems to be largely independent of the various editions of both games.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, not enough info to really tell what might happen

[Tepogue]

I guess its because I started playing when the rules were practically the same. Certainly they have diverged (and then remerged in some areas) since then.

It may be that the current Fantasy rules aren't as good as some other version. I really couldn't say. I can say that 40k has always seemed more popular to me. And the few sales figures I've seen (which admittedly are a small sample) seem to reinforce that. Everything I've heard is that for at least the last decade, 40k outsells Fantasy at least 3-1. There must be a reason for this, since it seems to be largely independent of the various editions of both games.

Unit size is the main reason. Most core infantry is 20-40 models. Ignore Ogres for the moment. My standard 40 clan rats is $70.00 USD. And at 5 points each is only 200 points. I think Orcas are 6 points each, but only 10 per $29.00 USD box. So 30 of them is $87.00 for a 180 point unit.