People who are confused about Space marines useing Daemonolgy

[Nabterayl]

Honestly, I don't think that Ultramarines are a much better example. The Ultramarines are a super atheist, super transhuman First Founding chapter. I can totally see Tigirius summoning a Daemon because he's not superstitious about what this thing is. It's a phantom of the immaterium, made of coagulated sentient passion, and he can dominate it into doing his bidding because his mind is stronger than its. I'm not saying he would actually do it - he seems much more cautious than that, from what little I know of him - but he's not a loyal member of the Imperial Cult. It's more complicated than that.

Agreed. A daemon, on its own terms, is no more evil than a necron or an ork or an eldar or a tyranid or a tau. It's just an extradimensional alien.

[Lord Asterion]

Except the daemon can leave a taint on your very soul that lingers and grows, the warp isn't really evil or good, but it is rage and hate and passion and malice and love and everything in between, the warp is not just an extra dimension, it feeds off of ours and daemons are solidified extremes of emotion, a blood letter isn't just an alien, its rage and blood lust and hate made manifest and channeling those powers draws your soul to the attention of the Gods, the most extreme of these manifested emotions.

All warp powers run this risk though, using any psychic power will corrupt you over time unless you're very careful, but directly drawing out a daemon is going to do that quicker.

[completeHook]

As far as other armies go... look, I think GW has been pretty clear that they view this as closer to a competitive roleplaying game than a true, hard-minded, tactical wargame. All that "Forge the Narrative" stuff, the frantic pace, the possibility of army lists that are truly broken and un-fun. Your army isn't meant to be optimized and cut-throat; it's meant to be a character.

I'm writing this with my fluff bunny furry ears on, it just goes against the spirit of the universe they have created.

Why would Chaos Champions devote their lives to trying to get the attention of Chaos Gods when some random Jonny can just stick out their thumb and flag down a passing Great Unclean One. I can't comment on how it will work in the game because there isn't enough information about it yet, but I do feel sorry for Chaos Daemon players who potentially are going to have all their best toys shared out between everyone else.

Oh and I evidently wasn't quick enough correcting that Black Templar mistake, you know post in haste, repent at leisure.

[Mr Mystery]

So don't use it yourself?

[Lord Asterion]

I'm writing this with my fluff bunny furry ears on, it just goes against the spirit of the universe they have created.

Why would Chaos Champions devote their lives to trying to get the attention of Chaos Gods when some random Jonny can just stick out their thumb and flag down a passing Great Unclean One. I can't comment on how it will work in the game because there isn't enough information about it yet, but I do feel sorry for Chaos Daemon players who potentially are going to have all their best toys shared out between everyone else.

Oh and I evidently wasn't quick enough correcting that Black Templar mistake, you know post in haste, repent at leisure.

Getting the attention through sacrifice and devotion to the gods, so that you may petition them for power and immortality is one thing, focusing your will (and sacrificing your life and almost certainly your soul) to summon a powerful daemon into your control for a few moments is entirely another.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm writing this with my fluff bunny furry ears on, it just goes against the spirit of the universe they have created.

Why would Chaos Champions devote their lives to trying to get the attention of Chaos Gods when some random Jonny can just stick out their thumb and flag down a passing Great Unclean One. I can't comment on how it will work in the game because there isn't enough information about it yet, but I do feel sorry for Chaos Daemon players who potentially are going to have all their best toys shared out between everyone else.

Oh and I evidently wasn't quick enough correcting that Black Templar mistake, you know post in haste, repent at leisure.

Ok, fair enough.

However, I've got to disagree with you there. There are plenty of examples in the fluff of shades of grey between good and evil, of characters using the arcane laws of Chaos to push it into their service. Like I wrote earlier, check out Eisenhorn. It's just not that black and white.

[Nabterayl]

Except the daemon can leave a taint on your very soul that lingers and grows, the warp isn't really evil or good, but it is rage and hate and passion and malice and love and everything in between, the warp is not just an extra dimension, it feeds off of ours and daemons are solidified extremes of emotion, a blood letter isn't just an alien, its rage and blood lust and hate made manifest and channeling those powers draws your soul to the attention of the Gods, the most extreme of these manifested emotions.

All warp powers run this risk though, using any psychic power will corrupt you over time unless you're very careful, but directly drawing out a daemon is going to do that quicker.

Sure, but none of that is evil.

[Lord Asterion]

Sure, but none of that is evil.

It depends on your definition of evil really.

[Mr Mystery]

Which is pretty definitive of 40k. After all, there are no good guys.

Eldar? Arrogant, self interested, and happy to commit genocide to save even one Eldar life.

Imperial Guard? Troopers are cheaper than their equipment. Let's expend them in their droves, even if it doesn't win us the battle.

Space Marines? Yeah they're more than a little fascistic.

Tau? Insidious.

[deinol]

But the Space Marines aren't part of the Imperium. They aren't theocrats - heck, most of them are transhumanist atheists. You are painting a pretty deep setting with an incredibly broad brush.

Wait, what heretic marines are you playing that are atheists? If you aren't warrior monks venerating the god-emperor, then you certainly aren't following the codex astartes.