6.5/7th Edition and What GW Should have done

[DarkLink]

What 'no tabling rule'?. Do you mean a rule where you can't kill your opponent's last model or something?

[buggle]

The best tournament FOC I played was that you had to fill 1 each of elite, heavy support and fast attack before you can get a second and so on for a third, alternatively you could unlock 2nd option with 4 troops and 3rd option with 6 troops. Yes there was still 3 heldrake list with 6 minimal cultists but no system is perfect

[Caitsidhe]

He is referring to the rule currently in 6th Edition which states you lose the moment you have no units on the table. Colloquially it is often called "tabling an opponent." His concern (and mine as well) is that objectives will be rather moot if someone playing Unbound is able to use excessive firepower to simply blow someone off the table and win by default.

[deinol]

What 'no tabling rule'?. Do you mean a rule where you can't kill your opponent's last model or something?

Sorry, I could have been more clear. I've seen a lot of comments that seem to take for granted that you could still win after being wiped from the table because you earned enough points from objectives. While I'm in favor of the rule changing, I don't think we have any rumors that have said whether the "no models on table = loss" rule has been removed or not.

Of course, if everything can score you can still do some fairly nasty elite/fast attack lists. It doesn't matter if you can contest objectives if you can wipe the unit from the objective. TH&SH Termies assaulting out of land raiders onto objectives can kill models and then score.

[Sainhann]

True, but an unit of TH&SH Terminators in a Land Raider is not cheap.

Plus if they need to wade through 40-50 models to get that Objective they might only be able to contest.

As to "Tabling" if you killed every single model in your opponent's army and they still won because of points you will learn very quickly not to kill that last guy until you have to.

[DarkLink]

Tau and Eldar already shoot armies off the table. Not that unbound would help there, but I digress.

I will say, though, that I've been to tournaments where tabling doesn't count as an automatic loss (and that's how it works in Infinity as well), and frankly it's a terrible way to force people to care about objectives. It creates a situation where suspension of disbelief gets shattered when your military dudes, on a mission to kill everything in their path on the way to their objective, fail their mission because they killed everything in their path on the way to their objective. When you literally can't kill an enemy model because it would lose you the game, that's absurd. Granted, that doesn't mean that tabling has to be the end-all that trumps everything, but I've played enough missions and games with that setup to dislike the general idea.

[Sainhann]

Tau and Eldar already shoot armies off the table. Not that unbound would help there, but I digress.

I will say, though, that I've been to tournaments where tabling doesn't count as an automatic loss (and that's how it works in Infinity as well), and frankly it's a terrible way to force people to care about objectives. It creates a situation where suspension of disbelief gets shattered when your military dudes, on a mission to kill everything in their path on the way to their objective, fail their mission because they killed everything in their path on the way to their objective. When you literally can't kill an enemy model because it would lose you the game, that's absurd. Granted, that doesn't mean that tabling has to be the end-all that trumps everything, but I've played enough missions and games with that setup to dislike the general idea.

Yup lost a game against Dark Elves with my Dark Angels many years ago.

I didn't table him but the mission was to get to an objective and claim an item. So on his last turn he rushes a vehicle so that it was right next to the item.

Thing is he didn't have much else since I killed most of his army off. That happened on the 5th turn and when rolled for a 6th turn and the game ended.

So I lost because the game ended because if it didn't I would have destroyed that vehicle on the next turn plus killing off more of his army.

But that is what the game has evolved into rush in at the last moment and win, when realistically no one in their right mind would use tactics like this.

[deinol]

The Spartans were wiped out at Thermopylae, but strategically they held the pass long enough to allow the allies to gather an army. Killing everything on the field isn't always the overall strategic objective, that's why the game has missions and objectives and isn't just kill points like they used to be.

I would presume that you'd give points for controlling all the objectives for the remaining turns if you had uncontested control over the field. But more dynamic battles and fewer last turn objective grabs would be good.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Too true, I always picture my games as just a small part of a much bigger war. After all what self respecting Waaaagh has only 185 boyz in it?

[Lord-Boofhead]

The best tournament FOC I played was that you had to fill 1 each of elite, heavy support and fast attack before you can get a second and so on for a third, alternatively you could unlock 2nd option with 4 troops and 3rd option with 6 troops. Yes there was still 3 heldrake list with 6 minimal cultists but no system is perfect

That pretty cool, I hope that the Modular/PAYSF (Play As You See Fit) vibe of 7th leads to more funky events like this.

A mate and I are already talking about Flyer only games and if we can get the rules tweeks needed to work it maybe running a Dogfight tourny.

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Heaven forbid GW were to implement something more complex than a d6 or d6+d6 system.
just as an excersize in thought. vehicle damage table on a d10:

What are these heretical polyhedral dice you speak of, these run counter to the Holy STC, dice may only be cubical.