7th ed in hand

[daboarder]

yes he can

[Chris Copeland]

"That is part of the problem (that Games Workshop created) Kerstan. A three Helldrake list isn't WAAC. Win at all costs is a person who cheats. Someone who builds lists within the rules framework is just playing the game. It only feels awful and horrible to you, just as it does to me when I run into lists I can't handle at all. There is no baseline. There is no balance. Thus everything is subjective. It is the worst game design ever created."

John, we must agree to disagree. By your logic there is no such thing as a WAAC type army (or fluffy army, for that matter). I have a completely different point of view. It's all good. Somehow, over the years we've seemed to find a middle ground that we can roll dice on. Cope

[Caitsidhe]

oh ok thats something. so at least other daemon/greyknight armies can stand up to the invisible deathstars. The rest of us are still probably borked though, as they have an insane number of dice to throw at those 2 spells (they only need 4 WCs max)

Heh. Remember yesterday when I was commenting on the horror of fighting invisible MC/FMC? I guess the same holds true for giant hordes of regular stuff too.

[IronZOGZ]

yes he can

...So I can bring a bunch of Warlocks and the turn I get lucky and roll a 6 + my added Mastery Levels one of my Warlocks (a Level One psyker) can become a Bloodthirster (a Warp Charge 3 spell) if I throw all my dice at it?

[daboarder]

Heh. Remember yesterday when I was commenting on the horror of fighting invisible MC/FMC? I guess the same holds true for giant hordes of regular stuff too.

Anything Invis, that thing is straight borked, particularly for daemons who have so many MLs you will never dispel that power


I'm actually kinda looking forward to seeing how the community handles this one

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...So I can bring a bunch of Warlocks and the turn I get lucky and roll a 6 + my added Mastery Levels one of my Warlocks (a Level One psyker) can become a Bloodthirster (a Warp Charge 3 spell) if I throw all my dice at it?

yup

or you could take say, wyrdvane psychers and turn them into heralds with your 2 WCs a turn, until you roll 6 and then turn one into a Greater daemon

[Caitsidhe]

John, we must agree to disagree. By your logic there is no such thing as a WAAC type army (or fluffy army, for that matter). I have a completely different point of view. It's all good. Somehow, over the years we've seemed to find a middle ground that we can roll dice on. Cope[/COLOR]

No, I don't think there is. I think there are just the rules and people who play by them and people who don't. That being said, neither your point of view or my own MATTER anymore. The new edition makes both of our viewpoints moot. It is a horrible situation.

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I know how I'd like to see the community handle it:

1. Don't buy the book. There really isn't any need even if you want to play this edition.
2. The community needs to setup its OWN board of standards that put out its OWN Faqs and Errata based on community standards and balance.
3. Don't buy crap firsthand from Games Workshop. There isn't any reason to do so when you can get it all at a more reasonable price.

The only thing Games Workshop responds to is money, so if we want them to make a better rules set then we must make it clear to them in the only language they understand. It is either that or ignore their rules entirely and build our own community standards (many sports do this), or just accept the inevitable and play in a META dominated by total chaos.

[Patrick Boyle]

No, I don't think there is. I think there are just the rules and people who play by them and people who don't. That being said, neither your point of view or my own MATTER anymore. The new edition makes both of our viewpoints moot. It is a horrible situation.

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I know how I'd like to see the community handle it:

1. Don't buy the book. There really isn't any need even if you want to play this edition.
2. The community needs to setup its OWN board of standards that put out its OWN Faqs and Errata based on community standards and balance.
3. Don't buy crap firsthand from Games Workshop. There isn't any reason to do so when you can get it all at a more reasonable price.

The only thing Games Workshop responds to is money, so if we want them to make a better rules set then we must make it clear to them in the only language they understand. It is either that or ignore their rules entirely and build our own community standards (many sports do this), or just accept the inevitable and play in a META dominated by total chaos.

That's a nice sentiment, but you're never going to get even a plurality, let alone a majority, to agree on every change you want to make. Nevermind the problem of people who don't spend all their time on 40k forums/web communities who wouldn't be familiar with this community standard you envision, every time someone new shows up at your store to play 40k you have to explain either the 'internet community' flavor of the game, or whatever changes your local store has made. It's just not practical.

[Caitsidhe]

That's a nice sentiment, but you're never going to get even a plurality, let alone a majority, to agree on every change you want to make. Nevermind the problem of people who don't spend all their time on 40k forums/web communities who wouldn't be familiar with this community standard you envision, every time someone new shows up at your store to play 40k you have to explain either the 'internet community' flavor of the game, or whatever changes your local store has made. It's just not practical.

It is practical enough for lots of major competitive events, all of whom setup some kind of Council which decides such things. I never said it would be easy. I just said that is how I'd like to see it handled. It is certainly no less practical than every single event or pick up game being a negotiation about what you can and cannot play because the rules say you can play everything. By these rules I can be entirely Fluffy and utterly BROKEN.

[IronZOGZ]

The comment about not buying the book is DEFINITELY valid. They didn't change anything. They just added a Psychic phase. Take some notes on the three new pages and drop them in to your existing book.

Problem solved. Or download the PDF. Sometimes doing the right thing involves an act of piracy... if we don't pay them for this bull****, they'll start listening to us.

[Defenestratus]

3. Don't buy crap firsthand from Games Workshop. There isn't any reason to do so when you can get it all at a more reasonable price.

Hell, the daemon models GW puts out are total crap compared to some of the ones from other manufacturers.

Use those instead.