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Thread: 7th ed in hand

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Boyle View Post
    Sort of, it's not an immediate loss when your last model dies, if you have more in reserves and if you went second. In the Victory Conditions section under the header "Sudden Death Victory", "If at the end of any game turn one player has no models on the battlefield his opponent automatically wins" with units embarked in buildings counting as on the field and units in reserves, including ongoing, not counting. Game turn and player turn are still exactly the same terms as they are in 6th, which is to say if your opponent kills your last model on the table, but you successfully roll reserves to bring something in at the start of yours, you're still good...unless you went first, as the end of your opponent's Player Turn would be the end of a Game Turn. So armies aiming to table are going to want to go second.
    Hrm, ok. They key thing is you can still be tabled. That is huge in so far as how it guts the notion that objectives are somehow going to balance out the possible builds. I didn't think they defined a Turn as being both player's go, but if they do that at least gives some chance to people who might not be fully deployed yet. Either way, the key question I wanted to know is answered. Blowing your opponent off the battlefield is still a win condition (one which applies immediately) and with the current builds possible, I expect that will be dominant.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Boyle View Post
    If I shouldn't be directly quoting things mods let me know, but for this one "An independant character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent which unit it has joined." Does that answer your question?
    GREAT! So independent characters wwith infiltrate confering it to units without is still completely ambiguous FANTASTIC GW, GOOD JOB NOBS!
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  3. #203

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    How about "While an Independent Character is part of a unit he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows rules for Characters"

    Combine with the rest of the Independent Character USR, and the first paragraph of the infiltrate USR and that means he gets to go a sneakin' with his lads.

  4. #204
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    yeah its an argument that was done to death in 6th, it heavily implies that an IC can transfer infiltrate to a unit, but unfortunately the stupidity of the "deployment" rules mean that the unit MUST deploy before the IC can join them as he doesnt "join" the unit until he is place within 2'
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  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    GREAT! So independent characters wwith infiltrate confering it to units without is still completely ambiguous FANTASTIC GW, GOOD JOB NOBS!
    Ah, that's why you were asking. Lets see...

    A note in the independent character section states that "An independent character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment", though that's opposite of the case you're after.

    The first line of Infiltrate states that "Units containing at least one model with this special rule are deployed last...", hm. Is there a case other than involving an Independent Character where this could be the case? The problem being that outside of that part of infiltrate I'd have to lean towards it not being ambiguous at all and that you can't do it period as written. They join by being deployed within coherency(i.e. 2"), so they're not joined before deployment, so all units without infiltrate are either deployed, or declared as in reserves, before units with Infiltrate deploy, as per the first line of Infiltrate. So...yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caitsidhe View Post
    Hrm, ok. They key thing is you can still be tabled. That is huge in so far as how it guts the notion that objectives are somehow going to balance out the possible builds. I didn't think they defined a Turn as being both player's go, but if they do that at least gives some chance to people who might not be fully deployed yet. Either way, the key question I wanted to know is answered. Blowing your opponent off the battlefield is still a win condition (one which applies immediately) and with the current builds possible, I expect that will be dominant.
    There's a Game Turn, where both players perform their Movement, Psychic, Shooting and Assault Phases, and then there's each individual player turn. The book says, just like 6th, that unless it is specified, Turn is to be interpreted as Player turn. Sudden Death Victory specifies Game Turn.
    Last edited by Patrick Boyle; 05-23-2014 at 07:01 PM.

  6. #206
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    yeah its that way in 6th as well so theres been no change either way.

    I wont make that call until I've read it myself but by the logic that they can only join by being within 2 also prevents them form being in transports as they can only be in the transport if they have joined the unit, which they cant do until they are within 2 of the unit, which they can be....
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  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    yeah its that way in 6th as well so theres been no change either way.

    I wont make that call until I've read it myself but by the logic that they can only join by being within 2 also prevents them form being in transports as they can only be in the transport if they have joined the unit, which they cant do until they are within 2 of the unit, which they can be....
    From the section on Transports "If an independent character (or even more than one) and a unit are both embarked in the same transport they are automatically joined, just as if the Independent Character was within 2" "

    Oh, interesting note on ICs, if there is one in a unit, the unit no longer needs to roll double ones to regroup if they are fleeing when under 25% strength, they test as normal. That wasn't in 6th was it?
    Last edited by Patrick Boyle; 05-23-2014 at 07:06 PM.

  8. #208

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    So, it's looking to me like you can take any number of Allied Detachments per Primary Detachment, and they could all be from different Codexes. Is anyone else with the rules seeing the same thing? Or say, 2 Combined Arms, and 3 Allied, with one of the two Combined Arms being Primary, and they could all be from different armies. I'm still reading, maybe I haven't found it yet.

  9. #209

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    Did I completely miss this part of Deny the Witch over the last week? "For a Deny the Witch test to be successful, you need to nullify all of the warp charge points successfully harnessed by the psyker when he passed his test." Each 6 on a d6 nullifies a single harnessed Warp Charge(which is a 4+ by the caster). So, it's not enough to negate enough successes that they go under the number required to manifest the power(i.e. they got 2 successes for a 2 Warp Charge power, so you get one 6), you have to negate them all. So at minimum you're looking at two 6s to negate a 2 Warp Charge power, and at worst X 6s where X is however many successes they got. Jeez that's rough.

  10. #210
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    Holy ****!!
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    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

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