7th ed in hand

[Kaptain Badrukk]

So guys, what are you going to do when a daemons lists rolls cursed earth and Invisibilllity?

Declare that they are just a WAAC player and quit the game?

Demand that they dont use those powers?

Or demand that they dont intelligently apply those powers?

No I will likely say.
"Dude, that's epic, I'm in real trouble now."
Then Ram them with my 8 Deathrollas
Or just, you know, suck it up.
Because the only thing worse than losing is pissing and moaning about it.
Or.............Deny the witch?
But then, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows and neither do I!

But the you're missing the point anyway, which was
"I HAVE NEVER ONCE COME ACROSS ANY OF THE STUFF PEOPLE MOANED ABOUT ON THE INTERNET ABOUT 6th ED."
Ever.
In fact most of it I had to google to find out what people were talking about.
Oh and Boarder, in the 6 months I've been here everyone I've asked about the Aussie Tourney scene has said something along the lines of "Yeah, the TOs basically got complacent and barely bothered promoting stuff." with the exception of GW staff who said "Yeah, there used to be tournaments but we don't know what's going on with them."
I wasn't here, so I'll have to go on second hand accounts though.

[Mr Mystery]

Has nothing to do with the gamers but the available terrain.



Why opposed to now? Thats how it is now.
6th had either agreement, scenario or d3 pieces per 1/6 of the table. Always enough space to move your Landraider.

I was meaning those living in fear of the horrendously beardy and extremely cash expensive armies. None of which I have ever actually encountered.

At the risk of sounding completely arseish, perhaps it's a genuine matter of life outlook. I'm a natural optimist, and always make the best of any given situation. It's just what I do.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I actively blame the internet.
I was in the hobby before hobby online was a thing, and there was none of this nonsense.

[Mr Mystery]

Or at least it wasn't shared.

The internet is an echo chamber right enough. But echos come from somewhere.

[Charon]

I was meaning those living in fear of the horrendously beardy and extremely cash expensive armies. None of which I have ever actually encountered.

At the risk of sounding completely arseish, perhaps it's a genuine matter of life outlook. I'm a natural optimist, and always make the best of any given situation. It's just what I do.

The problem with personal experence is - everyone can have another. I try to get about 3 - 4 games a month and even if I stick to our small gaming group (around 7 people) I will encounter 3 Heldrakes, Flying circus, Serpent Spam, Seerstar, Prescienced gunlines, ect.
We agreed to tone the powerlevel down several times and always end up there. Thats not because the players want to win at all costs but the players dont want a one sided massacre and want to have fun playing their armies.
Our imperial guys love their gunlines. They dont want to play mobile infantry. They just like to mass troops and hide them in every ruin/building possible. They think thats their fantasy of the IG. Cant blame them for doing what seems right storywise and feels narrative.
Now you have the Chaos player playing his 1 Helldrake no cultists list with a few Terminators and Berzerkers. Gets tabled as soon as he comes in 12" range.
Not fun at all. For the Chaos player. What to tell the IG player? Tone down the list? He already uses just Standard, HQ and Heavy support. Force him to play a style he doesnt deem fun?
We are not even talking about allies here cause we banned them together with SC.
And this is not the players to blame. They try hard to tone their powerlevel down. But if you have to play a style you dont like or have to/must not take units you dont like/like you are crossing a border where you can quit the game altogether.

[Tynskel]

It did in australia.

our biggest annual even went form having 120+ people to 30


edit: man, nids are even more screwed than I thought.....smash means that you get a single attack.....so how do we kill tanks now?

Carnifex

[IronZOGZ]

Carnifex

I think you meant... [url]http://1d4chan.org/wiki/DISTRACTION_CARNIFEX[/url]

[Caitsidhe]

You must understand Charon that our friends across the Pond "never" run into any of this stuff. Apparently, ingrained in their very DNA, there is a 40K version of the Marquess of Queensbury rules. From listening to them here and elsewhere, I have divined that they do not build "beardy" lists and don't have a lot of "that guy," even though they will talk about "that guy" for post after post. The issue, apparently, was created by us descendants of rogues and criminals in the American colonies. We are so bad, in fact, that is is a wonder that Games Workshop hasn't simply cut off all sales to us, sort of a purge like the Space Marines would apply to a planet too rife with corruption.

Of course, my own anecdotal experience with an Australian who was posted to San Antonio for several years and several other Brits I have encountered now revealed predators of the utmost competitiveness. They all brought hard lists that would make any driven for the gold Olympic athlete proud. I can only assume that perhaps it is in the water we Americans drink, and that when these visitors came over a horrible transformation took place. Like Edward Hyde, this unseemly, vile alter ego of gaming emerged. Or, this image the rest of us are given of how things are done across the pond is a big, steaming load.

Continuing with my own, admittedly anecdotal experiences, I have to reveal the the most competitive, annoying players I have ever encountered have not been the overly competitive types. They have been the jolly, friendly (at first) players who claim they don't care about who wins. It is just a beer and pretzels game, after all, and they are above the vulgarity of competition. I have heard the sermon many times. And yet... when the dice start getting thrown these jolly types seem more keen on staring at the dice each time suspiciously, insist on rereading each "well-known" rule every time when it goes against them, slow play, and get progressively more morose and painful to play as the game goes on. Now, if they are winning they remain that jovial bundle of joy you first met. Now, the funny thing about these many encounters is that my lists for pick up games are never as hard as my tournament ones. I don't play the sermon crowd with anything more than a rounded, all-comers type setup. Even then, I will knock things off it or replace them if I see they have no way to fight it. It doesn't matter. If they are losing, my list is horrible, broken and beardy. It is always the list with these guys and never the player. There seems to be a common agreement among this type of player that you never acknowledge that your loss is due to being out played. It must always be because of 1) a beardy list, 2) bad dice, or 3) you were really cheating them.

Does any of this sound familiar to you? I know it does to some of you (who post or lurk) because I've watched this little comedy happen to other people too. For some reason, the worst sports are always the people who are supposed to be (or at least spend a lot of time telling you) what great sports they are in fact. To me it is a big warning sign. I grit my teeth and muddle through it each time it happens. By contrast, the annoying version of the hyper-competitive guy (and yes I play against those too) at least understands the rules and doesn't spend his time accusing me with dirty looks or haughty manner of being a jerk for having the audacity of beating him. Competitive players are constantly bad mouthed by a very vocal group online, but it is odd because playing in both worlds, I always wonder who it is they are talking about. I play friendly local and tournament games. Granted, I play in the evil U.S.A. so perhaps I am blinded to how horrible a person I am, but most of the tournaments I attend are full of fun guys who are serious about their hobby and play that hard even while chatting away casual and friendly (often with beer in hand depending on where the event is held).

*So it seems to me, anecdotal and biased though I must be, that people playing hard and competitive actually seem quite relaxed and even <gasp> good sports. Since they all know the rules and don't take it personal that the other person is playing to win (as they are themselves) that they don't get all bent out of shape over it. I've been offered congratulations when I win, and had people tell me with grace that they were just outplayed. I in turn have done the same when it happens to me. I'm not going to pretend we don't have the occasional bad sport, or that I have never thrown a hissy fit myself. I have. What I am saying is the overall pattern of the different types of players seems the SAME to me. The only difference is in how they react or treat the other player. In short:

1. There is a rare animal that plays this game but doesn't care about winning and acts like a saint. By rare I mean you run into this fabled unicorn once in a very long while.
2. Most players, whether they claim to be fluffy or competitive are EXACTLY the same when the rubber hits the road. They play to win.
3. Supposedly good sportsman, fluffy "I don't care about winning" types seem to care the most about losing and make you regret playing them.
4. Competitive types tends to more casual opponents.
5. Ultra-competitive types are often more dull because they don't chat or do much besides stare at the game.
6. The true WAAC player is as rare as the Saint listed in #1. These people will cheat and only get gratification from others thinking they won, not the actual winning.
7. If American players engaged in the kind of obnoxious Jingoistic slams on our friends across the Pond that they do of us, we would be called be called "Ugly Americans."
8. Oddly, Americans (who are Jingoistic in general) don't breed 40K players who make it their business to insult players from other countries. Imagine that.
9. You never heard about competitive Players complaining endlessly about Fluff players. The competitive types just say live and let live.
10. So what does #9 above tell you about people "who live in glass houses"?

[legalsmash]

Erm, the denying player needs 6s on blessings, but each six cancels out one of the casters dice, and you can put as many of your power dice to it as you like, without risking Perils, opponent using 6 dice to try and Summon a Herald, throw all your dice, if he gets 3 passes, you only need one 6 to cancel the power, and he can still perils (likely if its not a Daemon)

The psychic phase, a whole new, better, set of missions and many tweaks and improvements to the rules, they could have added these in a supplement, but it would have been a lot more complicated and wouldn't have been able to sensibly change the core rules, the cheapest and easiest option (especially for new players) is a new rule book. DOn't forget, this is a set of 3 high quality hardbound books in a slipcase, for £50, this is NOT a money grab, its unlikey to generate much money on sales of rule books, there would be much easier ways to grab money if thats what they wanted.

Not rant, more of a ramble:

I'm a little wierded out by the concept of only needing a single six to disspell a psychic power blessing, to me it should be witchfire per witch fire no?

As for the quality, size, book, etc. I have a very swanky 75 dollar book on my mantle for 6th ed rules, an equally squanky fifth ed mini rule book and sixth ed mini rule book... guess which I use most?

I'm not saying that someone who is just getting intot eh game wouldn't enjoy "newer" rules, but to me, its just clunkier than what I would want to do on a beer and pretzel night. This game isn't something I compete in, or something I particularly WANT to do rather than model, paint, etc. I got into the gaming aspect because I'd painted the models for so long and wanted to see what the game ultimately was like...

GW does something that I like, they make good models that I can easily buy at somewhat reasonable rates through third parties. I have little to no desire to buy from them directly. They make nice looking books, which while waning in quality the last 10 years regarding actual storyline, give a "good" accounting of hte various forces you can buy models for. I literally expect nothing more and nothing less of them.

I got into 6th ed full tilt because I had a group of friends that played and could do it regularly. Things changed, I got two kids that are mobile, love to paint, but aren't in the age group to realistically understand the way the game plays yet, and honestly, I'm getting old, cantancerous and less than interested in buying a new set of rules every X or Y year ration to get rehashed fluff and new catalogue pics (which are really falling off, jesus christ the model painters are *** now.) While it would be nice to have the edition last longer, much like ADnD, nothing stops me from stipulating those rules to play a game with others, nor does my less and less frequent gaming activity warrant a book that costs more than a really sweet exocrine model that will sit on my desk and scare my dog.

[Sainhann]

You would be surprised by this how?

I am not surprised since everything GW does is a money grab.

I was hoping that they would surprise us by putting out a decent set of rules, which they haven't done for almost 15 years now.

Looks like it is going to be a very long time until they do.