How excited are you with 7th edition the way it turned out?

[chicop76]

I might use Be'lakor simpy because I have a DP model already with a Sword and a sweet paint job. I'll use him until they fix Invisibility at least, and perhaps beyond. Basically Invisibility is broken on purpose so they can move data slates for him.

To.drop.a mc.out the.sky you need.to.wound it. I foresee.this.guy will.get.love. invisibility love all.over.is.a.no.brainer.

[silashand]

To.drop.a mc.out the.sky you need.to.wound it. I foresee.this.guy will.get.love. invisibility love all.over.is.a.no.brainer.

Stop with the excess periods please. It is annoying and makes people (I suspect it's not just me anyway) not want to read your posts.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's kind of fun, like a robot.

I'm pleased with 7th so far, voted #4.

One of the reasons is that both my brother and I find we suffer from bouncing around from one project to the next without finishing one or the other - he's working on Astra Militarum, now he's doing more of his Raven Guard. I started Dark Eldar after losing enthusiasm for my Ulthwe Eldar. But now - what does it matter whether we've got an HQ painted up or not, or if we only have a few units of a few armies rather than a full collection of one? Unbound, baby. Play as you collect.

[Wolfshade]

Or an old timey telegram.

My book should be arriving any day now, every time the post comes I get excited.

[Eldar_Atog]

First of all, if I could get a butt-genie to grant me one wish, it would be to end all ad-hominem attacks on GW on this forum. Can we please for the love of the Throne stop pretending that we know what happens at GW headquarters and basing our critiques on that. Seriously, you don't know if they playtested. I don't know if they playtested. The only people who know if they playtested are currently under NDAs. There are many ways you can express your displeasure that constitute actual, substantive criticisms without pretending to have information that you don't.

*shrug*
And my wish would be to strip away the false optimism on this forum and have people spit out the kool-aid they keep guzzling. It always surprises me how some people need everyone to be optimistic around here. We are talking about a war game set in a dystopian future where humanity has been reduced to it's most craven aspect. Love, happiness, goodwill, peace do not exist and humanity has become much like the KKK.

This kind of thing is going to be a big draw to pessimists. You can kick against the pricks as much as you want. You are only going to bloody up your shins....

As for myself, I am dissapointed with the new rules. You can see from just glancing through the book that they were put together in a haphazard manner. No thought of game balance at all. The summoning spells insure that this edition is going to be a mess. When I first heard of the psyker phase, I was actually kind of excited. I hoped that they would finally simplify some of the sillier issues like having some spells thrown at the start of turn and others during the shooting phase. Instead, it has become harder to throw a simple spell. The odds are far greater for a spell failure and a perils result... plus my opponent faces no risk in throwing all his dice against my own spell. They should run the same risk to deny as I do to cast.

As for my play group, most of us are planning on moving to fantasy for a little while. We all have small armies we've stashed away for a rainy day and this new edition looks like it qualifies. Perhaps they will fix this mess but I doubt it....

[DarkLink]

Plus, some people do know how much playtesting GW does. It's not much. As I understand it, the game designers are actually pretty low on the totem pole, and their manager will walk in on them playtesting and tell them to wrap it up and start writing the next codex instead of polishing the current one.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Right. They do playtest, they have internal and external playtest groups. But they also are run to a tight schedule, especially these days - like any publishing company, there's a group of managers and editors that exist to make sure every project actually has an end and a release. In the old days, the design studio has much mre control of its own projects, and it turned out not to be so good for business (maybe, and unfortunately either way).

I don't know if codices or even editions have a standard dev time, but I'd expect not. There are some books out there which don't take too long - Space Marines - whereas the Dark Eldar project was being worked on intermittently for several years until they were satisfied they had the right track. That's probably the cause of some of the book disparities. But time spent on one project is time that isn't being spent on others, and they only have a finite amount of man-hours to give. It's tricky.

There's also just the fact of where books come out in the life of an edition. The metagame shifts, designers' ideas too.

There's a lot of factors. Here's a new one: it seems clear to me from White Dwarf coverage that the studio is now more clearly split into Background Writers and Rules Developers, with Phil Kelly, Mat Ward and Jeremy Vetock in the first camp and Jervis, Robin Cruddace and Simon Grant in the latter (not an all-inclusive list). What does this mean? We don't know! But books are now released as written by the whole studio, and it seems they've reorganised things a bit. There's a couple of new names too. I suspect thisis just the sort of necessary change to support their new output levels, and possibly it codifies roles and preferences that already existed. But to my eye, if one group is focusing on rules and another on background, rather than everyone doing everything in a bit of a jumble, that might be a positive step in making sure the right eyes are on the right tasks, and the right amount of time gets dedicated to them. We'll see.

I think my position would be that while I don't like GW as an entity any more than I like any other big company (spoiler: i don't like big companies), I like the people who work on the design end of things in terms of rules and especially miniatures and art. It's a job I'd love to do but know that I probably couldn't. They produce a product I like. I like many of the people who work for them in non-design capacities, too, it's a company which is suffused with a deep love for the product it makes. Unfortunately, GW is a big business and has to - or feels it has to - do things in a certain way, which is why we're saying goodbye to sixth just as we were getting to know it. But this is still the game I've loved since I was ten. If that makes me a kool-aid drinker, then I'll be smashing through the nearest wall.

As a final thought: I can understand the power of initial impressions, and nobody can tell you what to think or spend your own time on - but, seriously now, the rulebook's been out for six days and people are writing it off? Well, to each their own.

[Eldar_Atog]

But this is still the game I've loved since I was ten. If that makes me a kool-aid drinker, then I'll be smashing through the nearest wall.

As a final thought: I can understand the power of initial impressions, and nobody can tell you what to think or spend your own time on - but, seriously now, the rulebook's been out for six days and people are writing it off? Well, to each their own.

No, a kool-aid drinker is the person that tries to push their optimism on other people or treats a person with a pessimistic mind set as unhealthy. You presented a very nice argument and said several things I agree with.

I can't speak for anyone else but the reason I am willing to write this whole edition off.. or at least take a breather for a few months is this: I don't like the idea of being punished for taking a psyker. If I pay the points for something, I want a reasonable chance of success with it. To get that with the new edition, you'll probably need to roll 2 dice for each warp charge. Then I have to worry about a perils roll (4 dice have a significant chance). Then my opponent who invested nothing in psykers has a reasonable chance of denying the spell... at no risk to himself. They should face the same risk of a perils result as myself.

It would be kind of like watching a squad of gretchin win a close combat/shooting war against against your uber squad. If it happened over and over, it would take the fun out of the game.

[ElectricPaladin]

I can't speak for anyone else but the reason I am willing to write this whole edition off.. or at least take a breather for a few months is this: I don't like the idea of being punished for taking a psyker...

See, I don't think it works like that. If you are willing to play the odds, manage the risks, and use the right powers at the right time, it can totally pay off. Fantasy's magic system works similarly, and you aren't punished for taking a mage - in fact, it's basically a necessity!

I haven't had a game of 7th yet. I'm hoping to catch one this weekend. I'll report back about how it played once I've tried it out.

[Charon]

Agree much with Eldar_Atog here.
I was very exited about the PSI phase. And got really disappointed. While I like to bring psykers, I really dont want to spam them. And the only way to get your point investment to work is, well... spamming more of them. Bringing a single ML3 psyker is a waste of points as you will ever only cast a single power reliably - before deny the witch with no psykers. Not worth the investment, no tactical decisions involved. So the only decision is: do I want to spam them or do I leave them at home?
Also my DE will get shelved until they get a new codex. Melee is basically still dead and pure gunlines are still well. There was not a single issue tackled and in my opinion it just got worse for armies/playstyles that where not top notch in the first place.

See, I don't think it works like that. If you are willing to play the odds, manage the risks, and use the right powers at the right time, it can totally pay off. Fantasy's magic system works similarly, and you aren't punished for taking a mage - in fact, it's basically a necessity!

That is because fantasy emplays 2 mechanics that 40k does not. There is a maximum of dice and magic powers are stupidly powerful. If you have a single Farseer (without seerstar shenannigans, just a plain lvl 3 and maybe 2 lvl 1 warlocks) you create 4 powers. One lets you reroll your "to hit" another lets you reroll your saves and the other two are a witchfire which kills off one model at 18" and a power that basically suicides your psyker and prevents him from casting another spell ever again.
There is no big "counterplay" or "use the right powers at the right time". You just have 2 useful powers and cant cast both reliably. So its just you try and I try to deny. End of phase. Unless you start to spam psykers. But there is also no big "counterplay" as you wont have enough dice to stop keypowers. Unless you spam psykers...