Oh how GW has failed me.....Let me count the ways (7 of them in honor of 7th ed)

[WickedGood]

Let me begin by saying if you want a beer and pretzels game 40K is just fine. But as a tournament rule set they have proven what they have always said that they do not design 40K to be a competitive game. The most interesting thing about 7th edition to me now is will the tournament organizers be able to save 40K in spite of GW by building mass restrictions into the game in a consistent and even handed way. My bet is not. I believe that Hawk Wargames is celebrating this weekend as this is the beginning of the end for 40K. Just like Fantasy we had one rule set with some serious flaws come out followed by another rule set that completely set the game on a non competitive level.

Anyway, enough ranting here are the flaws I see in a competitive game of 40K:
1. No limit to detachments..... almost as stupid as unbound.
2. Invisibility...... This is stupid as psychic heavy armies will be able to stack the 2++ rerollable behind invisibility...
3. Did not fix the 2++ rerollable. I mean how hard is this. Read the forums, watch a couple of tournament results. Take a little bit of time and care in your game and you can fix this. It is the fact that 7th ed came out and this is still not fixed that pushes me away from the game. If they couldn't be bothered to fix this then they obviously just do not care.
4. Psychic powerhouses - The psychic phase in 40K just became as game breaking as the magic phase in fantasy. It just takes longer. 40K just became a game of the haves and have nots. You can either bring 10+ psycher levels to the field to begin with or you will loose.
5. Deamonic powers are stupid good - Especially for deamon players who have multi wound casters and units that can throw dice at powers. Just like in fantasy you mitigate the perils and then just keep casting.
6. Destroyed the tie between the fluff and the game. I was pissed off enough when the 6th ed allies chart made no sense. But to throw it out completely. And don't get me started on certian forces being able to summon deamons. I go back to its like they don't even care.
7. New edition, $80, 6th edition with more stuff broke. So I get the pleasure of paying for a rule set that the only major change is the one thing they break even more.

So I am done. I am not even going to try. It's not worth it. It is obvious they do not care about a competitively balanced game so I am going to move on. Warma-Hordes is solid, Dropzone looks very promising, those infinity guys keep showing up. GW is no longer the only game in town. My prediction is that 40K will go the way of Fantasy. 100 man tournaments will become 50 man, 50 will become 20 and the tournements will disappear in 2-3 years. GW seems to think that this is fine. I have a suspicion it will not be. I have always believed that one of the reasons 40K was so successful is that there was a core group of players that were always playing the game in the store as people wandered in. Many of these players are competitively minded like me and so we formed a nucleus that when people walked into a store they could see this game being played and the cool armies. My gut is that this edition changes that. We will find another game to play and when those new players come into a game store they will see us playing a different game with cool armies instead. I have a massive investment into 40k so I hope I am wrong. I hope some group of TO's come together and fix 40K in spite of GW. But as 7th ed shows, GW does not only not want to service this market they are actively working to make the game more noncompetitive.

Oh and if any of you GW people actually read this (which I doubt as 7th ed shows you don't care) I am a share holder and I will be selling my stock. I held on to yhe shares after your latest set of financial results thinking you might bounce back in a big way. It is clear you will not. Maybe enough of us will sell that the stock price will get low enough someone new can buy you out and fire you all.

[xcom]

I haveny played since 5th, and was considering maybe getting back in with 7th. There was several issues that I was hoping would change with 7th, but most of that didn't happen. The new deamon summing thing is just plain silly. Well GW you lost your chance to get me back into you game. I'm going to stick with Warmahordes and give Deadzone and Bolt Action a try now.

[Xaric]

Ok counter to your rant

1 Means more options... You have a Leader who comes with a warlord trait why would you need a bound army other then for the claim objective this means you can be creative with your army and its background just the way GW is thinking the game should be more about the narrative then rolling some dice and removing said model sorry but if you don't want substance to the game go play chess...

2 Instead of whining and claiming something is broken how about using tactical know how and figure a way to beat it is that not the hole point of a game with a army not just like the problem we had in 6th deathstars

3 Maybe they had a good reason maybe someone found a way to completely nullify it but you clearly haven't given any reasons to why it is broken.

4 Hmm so basically your telling me because they streamlined the 40k magic phase it is a bad thing so rolling 2 d6 for leadership then the other person rolls a d6 for deny the witch is slower then pooling all your dice and using what you got also onto your rant about Invisibility it can be denied now where it could not before. Here's a tip if they need 3 warp charges and they roll lets say 5 dice get and they rolled let say 6 6 3 1 4 and you roll say 2 deny the witch and get a 6 and a 2 they get perils and fail to cast the ability due to you removed one of there warp charges instead of rolling say 3 deny the witch because he has to get 3 warp charges and wasting your pool of deny the witch dice.

5 You do know they still need mastery lv 3 to use half of those spells so unless they play daemons who have access to mastery lv 3 they are the only ones who can use most of those ability and yes even if pink horrors are a unit of 16 they are still counted as mastery lv 1 they just give the army 3 warp charge to the pool. And if they sacrifice themselves they loose all upgrades and are mastery 2 at most so they loose there ability to use the 3 warp charge ability such as summoning.

6 the chart has been made so if you play with friend's who say have nids and the other plays space marines there's no objection when it comes to the allied but they must deploy 12" away from each other. Ok really now your being silly summoning daemons is how most daemons get into real space you really should read the fluff if you feel this is incorrect even the most loyalist member can be tempted by power for personal gain.

7 New edition with cost about the same but with 3 books in there own respected areas instead of taking a giant *** tome that you will only game with 200 pages and a new phase.

Ok balance you want your playing the wrong game then chess is your game because this game was never designed to have balance in mind or they would have never made other factions other then space marines war is not meant to be fair that is the challenge if you can't accept a challenge and want a I WIN to suit your needs then ask yourself why do you play the game?

[Archon Charybdis]

5 You do know they still need mastery lv 3 to use half of those spells

No, you just have to generate a total of 3 warp charges in your army. Mastery Level only effects the number of spells you know and how many you can cast a turn. The Malefic Daemonology chart is one of the few major gripes I think are founded.

[Melon-neko]

5) Mastery level just declares how many powers a psyker has and how many they can cast per phase. A level 1 psyker now generate a warp charge 2 or 3 power (One of the changes from 6th to 7th)

[YorkNecromancer]

But as a tournament rule set they have proven what they have always said that they do not design 40K to be a competitive game.

So... so you know and freely admit that you're wrong to complain about it being poorly balanced for tournament play... but you still do?

Hmmm.

So I am done. I am not even going to try. It's not worth it. It is obvious they do not care about a competitively balanced game so I am going to move on.

Go to your wide future. I trust it will bring you more happiness than 40K.

[DarkLink]

So... so you know and freely admit that you're wrong to complain about it being poorly balanced for tournament play... but you still do?

Hmmm.





Go to your wide future. I trust it will bring you more happiness than 40K.

Don't be so condescending. Other people are allowed to have opinions, and being judgemental about is is a great way of driving a split in the community.

[Big_jon]

So... so you know and freely admit that you're wrong to complain about it being poorly balanced for tournament play... but you still do?

Hmmm.





Go to your wide future. I trust it will bring you more happiness than 40K.

Whenever a guy makes a list of valid criticisms about something that they are passionate about why is it that people act like children hoping on the bandwagon of trying to completely belittle them? Like seriously it's cool to disagree but posting up a bunch of douchey gifs to mock someone is un necessary, you're not being edgy, you're not being cool, you're being a dick.

People leaving the hobby is not good for the hobby.

[Vlad78]

Ok counter to your rant

1 Means more options... You have a Leader who comes with a warlord trait why would you need a bound army other then for the claim objective this means you can be creative with your army and its background just the way GW is thinking the game should be more about the narrative then rolling some dice and removing said model sorry but if you don't want substance to the game go play chess...

2 Instead of whining and claiming something is broken how about using tactical know how and figure a way to beat it is that not the hole point of a game with a army not just like the problem we had in 6th deathstars

3 Maybe they had a good reason maybe someone found a way to completely nullify it but you clearly haven't given any reasons to why it is broken.

4 Hmm so basically your telling me because they streamlined the 40k magic phase it is a bad thing so rolling 2 d6 for leadership then the other person rolls a d6 for deny the witch is slower then pooling all your dice and using what you got also onto your rant about Invisibility it can be denied now where it could not before. Here's a tip if they need 3 warp charges and they roll lets say 5 dice get and they rolled let say 6 6 3 1 4 and you roll say 2 deny the witch and get a 6 and a 2 they get perils and fail to cast the ability due to you removed one of there warp charges instead of rolling say 3 deny the witch because he has to get 3 warp charges and wasting your pool of deny the witch dice.

5 You do know they still need mastery lv 3 to use half of those spells so unless they play daemons who have access to mastery lv 3 they are the only ones who can use most of those ability and yes even if pink horrors are a unit of 16 they are still counted as mastery lv 1 they just give the army 3 warp charge to the pool. And if they sacrifice themselves they loose all upgrades and are mastery 2 at most so they loose there ability to use the 3 warp charge ability such as summoning.

6 the chart has been made so if you play with friend's who say have nids and the other plays space marines there's no objection when it comes to the allied but they must deploy 12" away from each other. Ok really now your being silly summoning daemons is how most daemons get into real space you really should read the fluff if you feel this is incorrect even the most loyalist member can be tempted by power for personal gain.

7 New edition with cost about the same but with 3 books in there own respected areas instead of taking a giant *** tome that you will only game with 200 pages and a new phase.

Ok balance you want your playing the wrong game then chess is your game because this game was never designed to have balance in mind or they would have never made other factions other then space marines war is not meant to be fair that is the challenge if you can't accept a challenge and want a I WIN to suit your needs then ask yourself why do you play the game?

I respect your opinion but could you please stop repeating the main GW sorry argument used to explain their complete lack of interest into making this game as balanced as possible?

40k is no chess so what? are you getting paid for repeating such ludicrous idea as 40K can't be balanced? or are you just repeating what you heard here and there coming from people who do NOT want this game to have better rules?

This is completely non sensical.

They don't WANT to invest money into balancing things. Period.
Broken units allow them to sell. That is all.

and this is NOT acceptable.

If you accept the unforgivable poor quality of GW playtesting (if there's any) , it's your choice but please do not complain about those who are legitimate to complain about it as customers.

There should be a place for all, be they casual or competitive or fluffy players.

[Xaric]

I respect your opinion but could you please stop repeating the main GW sorry argument used to explain their complete lack of interest into making this game as balanced as possible?

40k is no chess so what? are you getting paid for repeating such ludicrous idea as 40K can't be balanced? or are you just repeating what you heard here and there coming from people who do NOT want this game to have better rules?

This is completely non sensical.

They don't WANT to invest money into balancing things. Period.
Broken units allow them to sell. That is all.

and this is NOT acceptable.

If you accept the unforgivable poor quality of GW playtesting (if there's any) , it's your choice but please do not complain about those who are legitimate to complain about it as customers.

There should be a place for all, be they casual or competitive or fluffy players.

Then tell me what is balanced in your eyes? Because clearly you seem to have a very high understanding to what balance is yet you give no example or reason to how you state it.

Example of balance on a very basic level take away every rule and replace it with 3 rules rock paper scissors there you go a balance of a game where each player can win or loose because they are completely equal. Now take warhammer 40k we have a total of 17 army's each with there own rules and play styles and you tell me how you can balance said game this is just as bad as the wow forums when people cry because there warrior could not solo 2 druids and demand the druids to be nurfed because there the god of balance.

Non sensical or just you don't want to hear the truth of what you are hearing.

This is how you see it as NOT acceptable you don't speak for the hole community sorry.

I am assuming you are comparing a video game to a game done in reality video games can be play tested by millions of people because its online and available to everyone sometimes free of cost due to free to play so the data is easy to be accumulative in real time to give a more higher scale of how the game could be balanced. But for a game like warhammer GW can only get a very small and limit amount of data due to they don't have access to every play done by people all around the world who play warhammer the only information is via youtube battle reports and real life play in close area to where they are doing research on the balance of the game.

Casual and competitive can never be one and the same Casuals are people who don't have a huge amount of time so they have very little understanding to say someone who is a competitive player who will understand most of the statistics of the game to the point they could destroy a casual player because of the knowledge they have the stuff they learned and the tricks to not brake but find loopholes in the rules.

I hope this information helps.