Malefic powers and demons..... why the 7th Edition physic phase sucks

[Hapes]

First let me just show you this......



Yeah.... I played someone with a list with about half the physic ability of this one.... without a knight titan and pulling bad cards....
Can you guess how my game turned out?
I want to cast a spell? Ha nope..... I only denied ONE of his spells all game.
At the end of the game he had summoned 1000 points or more of free models onto the table while suffering a single perils that was only a leadership test...which he passed.
BROKEN as all hell. Demons and these powers will BREAK the game at any competitive event....

[ChacoStylez]

Welcome to 7th Edition: Daemon spam!

In all seriousness, when that is your primaris power, who didn't know this would happen?

[DrBored]

Too bad 40k was never made to be balanced or competitive, else I might have more pity for you.

[DarkLink]

And before someone insists that this is a fluke: [url]http://daemons40k.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-early-returns-are-not-good.html[/url]

Also, I've literally done the math. Frankie rolled well, but not unreasonably so.

[ElectricPaladin]

As several of the commenters pointed out, we still don't know who in the Daemons codex will be allowed to take Daemonology. For all we know, the power will be sharply restricted within the codex. For example, if you replay that game with only the lord of change allowed to take the power, the situation changes significantly. You now need to keep that lord of change safe, which is something your opponent can try to stop. If you keep him safe by keeping him in your backfield, hiding in a ruin, you are sharply limited in which daemons you can summon, and if you want to summon a close combat unit - bloodletters, for example - you will need to risk your lord of change by moving him up the field or face the certainty that your bloodletters will be shot off the board as they advance.

What if only Daemon princes can take Daemonology? Now the issue is even sharper - princes become necessary for the "Daemon Summoning" list, but with T5, keeping them alive is difficult. After hearing everyone pan princes for their lack of survivability, wouldn't that be a fun wrinkle?

It's certainly true that as it stands now, nobody can take any of the Daemonology powers because rules as written, nobody's codex says they can. Hell, at the moment we only know two things for sure: 1) Ezekiel of the Dark Angels can take Malfic Daemonology and 2) somebody with the Daemon USR can take it (strongly implied by the limitations on the use of Malfic Daemonology for anyone without that USR).

The same may well be true of Santic Daemonology. Before we freak out about every squad of Grey Knights having a vortex grenade, we need to consider that perhaps only Grey Knights librarians or Inquisitors will get access to the discipline, and squads will have to be satisfied with other powers, or specific powers from within Santic (ie. Hammerhand, etc) rather than rolling as normal.

I understand your anxiety. I have traded and sold away some Eldar I've been sitting on because summoning Daemons seemed fun. I don't give a rat's booty for the competitive scene, but I would hate for it to be a broken strategy that will lose me friends if I ever try to play it at game night.

However, I still council caution. Like I said, while it's obvious that the Daemonology powers are potent - and maybe they're potent enough to crack your competitive scene wide open - we don't know if they're actually potent enough to "ruin" the game. The FAQs will (hopefully) answer all.

EDIT: Additionally, you got really lucky rolling the portalglyph. Were you rocking some houserule that lets you chose your Exalted Gift? Is there something to the Belakor dataslate that I don't know about? While I definitely dream of cramming my Summon All the Things list with as many Exalted Gifts as I'm allowed in hopes of rolling the portalglyph, it's still up to the dice if you get it.

[daboarder]

Quick reply. You do get to choose to swap an exalted gift for a number of "primaris" relics ep. The grimoire is one and the portal glyph is another

So you only need 1 "roll" to be garraunteed the glyph

[ElectricPaladin]

Quick reply. You do get to choose to swap an exalted gift for a number of "primaris" relics ep. The grimoire is one and the portal glyph is another

So you only need 1 "roll" to be garraunteed the glyph

That's right... thank you.

I'm pretty new to the Daemons 'dex. I knew that each category of Gift could revert to a list of "primaris" options. I'd forgotten that the relics were one.

Well, that's good news, I suppose...

Anyway, I think that the rest of my points re: who gets the power are still valid. Getting a portal glyph into position where the stuff coming out of it doesn't have to cross the board and the glyph itself won't be shot to death still takes some doing.

[pinkcarson]

EDIT: Additionally, you got really lucky rolling the portalglyph. Were you rocking some houserule that lets you chose your Exalted Gift? Is there something to the Belakor dataslate that I don't know about? While I definitely dream of cramming my Summon All the Things list with as many Exalted Gifts as I'm allowed in hopes of rolling the portalglyph, it's still up to the dice if you get it.

Exalted rewards "primaris" or #0 power is to choose a hellforged artifact (p.67). Portalglyph is on the list of hellforged artifacts (p.65). No luck involved.

[lattd]

So the problem isn't the rulebook it's the codex? I fully expect male fix to be only available to heralds and greater daemons. If that is the change when the codex comes out is the rule still broken, I can also see the grimnoire being changed.

[daboarder]

oh aye the other points are valid, Personally I think its going to be heralds, princes and greater daemons (no horrors) as they all already have access to BRB powers and it would be odd to see certain units be limited to certain disciplines but it would address the exponential growth problem.

Of course that then raises the issue of why there are no day one erratta's. I mean this is 2014, having the files ready to go on release day morning requires negligible effort. And for a product that costs $140 its not unreasonable to expect it to be complete straight out the box.

And yes before the other crowd starts arguing about entitlement I do think that being told the specifics of how one of the major sales pitches of a new product works to be a reasonable request.

edit: and even if the maelific powers are limited you still have daemons that have so many rolls and warpcharges they can hand out invisibillity and other powers like candy.

So the problem isn't the rulebook it's the codex? I fully expect male fix to be only available to heralds and greater daemons. If that is the change when the codex comes out is the rule still broken, I can also see the grimnoire being changed.

Not really, the codex certainly wasnt the problem in 6th edition (baring grimoire) its the changes brought on directly by 6th ed (the entire maelific tree, invisibillity, deny the witch changes etc) that are causing problems.