Malefic powers and demons..... why the 7th Edition physic phase sucks

[ElectricPaladin]

Of course that then raises the issue of why there are no day one erratta's. I mean this is 2014, having the files ready to go on release day morning requires negligible effort. And for a product that costs $140 its not unreasonable to expect it to be complete straight out the box.

And yes before the other crowd starts arguing about entitlement I do think that being told the specifics of how one of the major sales pitches of a new product works to be a reasonable request.

I think that Day One would be nice, but not necessary. I'd say that if we see the FAQs by the next business day - that would be tomorrow - then GW has discharged their duty. A major rollout like a new edition has probably taken up a lot of their manpower. If we don't see the FAQs within a week of release, though, I'll start to get annoyed.

edit: and even if the maelific powers are limited you still have daemons that have so many rolls and warpcharges they can hand out invisibillity and other powers like candy.

I agree. I think it's Invisibility that's still the main problem.

[DarkLink]

While it may be technically true that the power will be limited by the availability of daemonology, that's a red herring. The whole point is, the powers are broken. It's blatantly obvious that any number of codices are supposed to have it available, even if you can rules lawyer your way into claiming it's illegal for now. Either way, the community will likely just ban the powers.

[Lexington]

As several of the commenters pointed out, we still don't know who in the Daemons codex will be allowed to take Daemonology. For all we know, the power will be sharply restricted within the codex.

The idea that the Games Workshop of 2014 would make any kind of useful restriction on who can use a psychic power that requires players to buy large quantities of models is...well, optimistic is about the best word I can come up with here. C'mon now. This is the same edition that has Imperial psykers summoning Daemons willy-nilly. Good sense has long since left the building.

That said, a simple house rule can curb the problems of Malefic powers without dulling them into uselessness. "Each Malefic power may only be used once per turn by any army" solves it pretty quickly. I'd additionally turn Possession into a once-per-game power, and limit Marked models to summoning Daemons of their own Chaos Power, but those don't seem strictly necessary.

[ElectricPaladin]

This is the same edition that has Imperial psykers summoning Daemons willy-nilly. Good sense has long since left the building.

Causing a perils on any double is hardly "will-nilly." It's a good way to lose your psyker very quickly, and possibly without ever putting a Daemon on the table. I don't foresee a lot of non-Daemons or CSM players using Daemonology outside of 100% narrative play.

[daboarder]

there are psykers who can do it, but they are few and far between

If I can find the points in my lists I plan on running a 4 W IWND sorcerer in my chaos list as a daemonologist. the 4 wounds and the chance at a regen combined with Ld 10 mean that the chances of him actually dieing are pretty slim

[Lexington]

Causing a perils on any double is hardly "will-nilly." It's a good way to lose your psyker very quickly, and possibly without ever putting a Daemon on the table.

That Perils table ain't so perilous - you stand a pretty good chance of taking a single wound, at most. Hell, for Brotherhoods of Psykers, that's one low-cost dude of ten or so in exchange for either a full squad of Daemons, a Herald, or even a big, honkin' Greater Daemon. That doesn't even take into account the 1/6th chance that your psyker becomes a tiny battlefield god for a turn. That's a great return on points, and I'd be shocked if 7th Ed doesn't see an unprecedented number of Guardsmen, Space Maureens and Inquisitors doing the daemonic tango. Eldar, too. Because, you know. Narrative forging.

[Nefarius Drapesh]

erm... i thought from the daemon codex only demonprinces can take malefic daemonology.
at least the heralds and greater daemons specifically state what psy diszipline they can use and none has daemonology.
nurgle: pestilence and biomantie
slaanesh: excess and telepathy
tzeentch: change and divination
khorne: everybody loves the non-complicated handsome guy

or am i missreading something?

playing daemons myself ...yeah... could be cool and stuff...
but i tested a game with one daemonprince with malefic and he alone already created over 500pts of additional models during the game.

[LTKlaudius]

any psyker can take demonology. if they have warp charge, they can take it.
any caster can cast maelific spells except for grey knights,
So everyone is gonna summon daemons lol

[interrogator_chaplain]

@LTKlaudius Yes, but if any other race takes Daemonology, they peril instantly on ANY doubles, regardless of whether it passed or failed.

Honestly, all I'm seeing here is the Psychic phase is broken if you're playing against Daemons.

[Nefarius Drapesh]

where can i find the information that really any caster can cast malefic spells?
the little reference card beyond my psycards state that daemons have access to malefic, yes, but nowhere does it state that ALL daemons have access to malefic. but my daemon codex shows clear restrictions about which daemon can take what psychic disziplines.
i'm just interested in some page number...