Malefic powers and demons..... why the 7th Edition physic phase sucks

[Erik Setzer]

Not really, the codex certainly wasnt the problem in 6th edition (baring grimoire) its the changes brought on directly by 6th ed (the entire maelific tree, invisibillity, deny the witch changes etc) that are causing problems.

Deny the Witch change is NOT a problem. If they'd had Malefic in 6th edition, you wouldn't even be able to try to stop it. Or Invisibility. Or any other power not being used directly against one of your units. Now you can.

[giblingoblin]

Actually the last page of the psychic phase section states that all factions, except tyranids, unless other wise stated, have access to the daemonology disciplines, however it says that grey knights can only choose powers from the Sanctic half and daemons can only choose powers from the Malefic half but the trade off being unlike other armies they do not suffer perils of the warp on any doubles but only on double 6's when manifesting a power from the daemonology discipline.

[Erik Setzer]

Causing a perils on any double is hardly "will-nilly." It's a good way to lose your psyker very quickly, and possibly without ever putting a Daemon on the table. I don't foresee a lot of non-Daemons or CSM players using Daemonology outside of 100% narrative play.

Even in White Dwarf, they suggested sacrificing a cheap non-Daemon psyker to summon in a Lord of Change or other psychic Greater Daemon, swapping out your psyker for a more powerful model that can then go about the rest of the game casting Malefic powers without anywhere near as much risk of Perils. They straight up told you how to break that restriction in their own magazine before the book's release.

Of course, they *want* you to break the restriction that "balances" it, because they want you to buy a bunch of Daemon models.

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there are psykers who can do it, but they are few and far between

If I can find the points in my lists I plan on running a 4 W IWND sorcerer in my chaos list as a daemonologist. the 4 wounds and the chance at a regen combined with Ld 10 mean that the chances of him actually dieing are pretty slim

Similar thought, if you want to be a jerk: Eldar Farseers not only have the Ghost Helm to try to knock off a wound from a Perils, you'll also likely get the power to get a wound back on a target unit with at least one of your Warlocks, so you can go ahead and Perils and either use dice to get rid of it directly, or just gain the wound back from another power later.

Summoning Daemons with Eldar is a jerk move, but so is doing it with the Dark Angels character who should most recognize how close they all are to losing their souls.

[D6Damager]

There is no guarantee that we will ever see an errata or FAQ for this. Psychic powers are not the only broken thing in this edition. Wait until the battle report with a battle forged marine drop pod army places 18 uncontestable scoring units on objectives that they just drew from the maelstrom deck....

[interrogator_chaplain]

There's also one good way of dealing with Daemons spamming summoning.

[Domine Nox]

where can i find the information that really any caster can cast malefic spells?
the little reference card beyond my psycards state that daemons have access to malefic, yes, but nowhere does it state that ALL daemons have access to malefic. but my daemon codex shows clear restrictions about which daemon can take what psychic disziplines.
i'm just interested in some page number...

Pg 28 "Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate power from the Daemonolgoy discipline.

So all daemons get access to that discipline. ALL Horrors, Heralds, Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes, and the psykers from other armies can take it too.

[Alan Braggins]

Pg 28 "Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate power from the Daemonolgoy discipline.

So all daemons get access to that discipline. ALL Horrors, Heralds, Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes, and the psykers from other armies can take it too.

You could argue that where the codex says which disciplines a daemon unit uses, that's "otherwise stated". But I think that leaves the Blue Scribes as the only daemon who could use Daemonology, which pretty clearly isn't what was meant - White Dwarf has already been quoted as saying a Lord of Change does have access.

[CaptainWhizz]

Rules from a Codex trump rules from the main book, right? So, until GW release a document updating the situation, any army list entry that specifies which disciplines a psyker can choose their powers from would mean that particular psyker cannot take Daemonology powers, unless Daemonolgy is one of those listed.

"Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline."

Example:
"A Great Unclean One generates his powers from the Biomancy and Plague disciplines." That's pretty specific, it states which disciplines the GUO can chose from, and those don't include Daemonology, so it could easily be argued that it has been "otherwise stated".

However, I don't think that's what GW intended, especially as it contradicts the rest of the text in the rules about Malefic powers. Also, would that interpretation mean that nobody had acces to Daemonology? Do any psykers have unrestricted access to powers?

[mieresin]

In the video they use lots of proxis, don't let your oponent do that (rules say if you don't have the model you can't put it in the table) .
Not everybody owns 200 demons.

[Mr Mystery]

Rulebook shows everyone gets them, except Tryanids. Grey Knights and Daemons are restricted to the specific disciplines.

And that's it.

And as I pointed out, all the time they're *****ing their casting dice summoning, is time those Tzeentchian Daemons are doing precious little else. Get tore in. They're not at all difficult to kill! Sure, they could go casting Invisibility and other nasties, but then that's dice not going to summoning anything.....

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There's also the issue of VPs.

Summoned units give VPs like any other unit. If you're allowing yourself to be Possessed by a big nasty, I get the VPs for the dude being Possessed. Risk here is that in order for summoning, you really need to focus your list and indeed efforts on it. And as Tzeentch Daemons need their psychic powers to do actual damage, there's a fine line to tread to not only Summon stuff, but do enough damage to my army to win.

Played wrong, and you're just giving me a source of easily nabbed VPs. 10 Horrors are pretty simple to kill off, and as you can't summon into terrain (Summoning counts as a deepstrike), you may find yourself having to Summon into the open, where you can bet your sweet bippy I'll be pouring on the firepower to bag those VPs.

I think I need to find me a Daemon player, and challenge them to a 2,000 point game against my Necrons, and see what happens.