Easy way to fix the psyker phase for now.

[Xaric]

Easy way to deal with some of the summoning from the last game i play is to roll 2 dice if the player rolled 3 successis because only one has to roll a 6 to deny the summoning

[daboarder]

No xaric you need to negate all warpcharges even ones in excess

[Charon]

They never get two free powers. The way the rules are written, you only get the free Primaris power when you only take a single Psykic Discipline. Ahriman, due to his Mark of Tzeentch, is forced to take one Tzeentchian power and is not allowed to take more than two Tzeentchian powers from that discipline. As such he can never gain any free Primaris psyker because, RAW, he is not capable of taking only powers from a single Psykic Discipline.

And your point beeing? Apart from parroting what I just said?

[SnakeChisler]

I just don't see a problem at the minute

Its going to take a while for people to get used to 7th but demons got severely nerfed by not being able to fly into combat

Also I've played a few games and it seems fine to me

+ I did a load of testing on psychic casting in normal circumstances to get warp 2 power off you need 5 dice for 80%

This seems to be a cut off point as moving up to 6 + dice I succeeded in blowing myself up a lot

Its like they have a bucket of dice but to even get the pink horror shooting off their gonna have to use 3 and remember the horrors only generate 1

As far as I can see this is a mythical problem that's not really been thought through, on the face of it invisibility looks OP but we'll have to see how it plays as I said throwing loads of dice at something will just get you blown up

[Katharon]

Read this entire post before making a reply – that goes for anyone. Ok, let's start this from the top Charon. Seeing as how you are being quite “flamey” at the moment and my urge to begin a list of degenerate terms is growing stronger.


Asterion made one mistake in his original post:

They do, but now Daemons and Marked Psykers get the Primarius for free, which counts as their choice, so they can dip into another discipline, other Psykers get a free Primarius if they on'y take powers from one discipline.

That is incorrect. There is no rule or text in the codex Chaos Space Marines that allows a Psyker to get any Primaris Power from one of the Chaos God Psykic Powers list just because you take one. There is no such thing as getting that free primaris for getting just one of the Chaos God powers. It in fact says you no psyker using those powers may get more than half their allotted powers from those tables. (P.70 “If the Psyker has a Mark of Chaos, or is a Daemon of particular Chaos God, they must roll at least one, and may roll up to half, of their powers on the table that corresponds to their patron deity.)


First, you said this:

Please re-read.
Daemons MAY get powers from their god. They do not have to take them.
CSM MUST roll on the table once. The primaris you get for free does not count as you do not roll for it which the rule clearly states.

So we have a perpetuation of the mistake that Asterion made, in believing that CSM Psykers got the Primaris Power for free. As stated above and in the codex, they never get anything for free and are not allowed BY THE RULE to get ALL of their powers from a single Chaos God Psykic Power table.

Also, Asterion was addressing your division between “Daemons” and “CSM” in that quote when he said:

The rules states nothing of the sort.

As the rules state – and I'll go ahead and copy-paste it a second time for ease of reference – P.70 “If the Psyker has a Mark of Chaos, or is a Daemon of particular Chaos God, they must roll at least one, and may roll up to half, of their powers on the table that corresponds to their patron deity.. As such there is no division between Psykers and Daemons in the CSM Codex – they both must roll for one power from their respective deity.

Your follow up post addressed the Codex Chaos Daemons. Lord Asterion and I were not talking about any rules from the Codex Chaos Daemons. We were only talking about the Codex Chaos Space Marines. So why you felt it was necessary to quote a rule for a different army in a different codex flabbergasts me. We're talking solely about the Codex Chaos Space Marines.



Then I said this:

I'm thinking that they'll have to FAQ the CSM codex to allow CSM sorcerers and Ahriman to *choose* to roll on their chosen Chaos God's psykic chart -- otherwise they will never be able to get that free primaris power. Ahriman in particular gets screwed out of having four psykic powers due to the new rule.

Again, only talking about the CSM Codex and addressing the fact that the current RULE is that they MUST roll at least once on their particular Chaos deity's psykic power table but are not allowed to take ALL of their powers from it.

In reply you said:

I actually think that not getting the free primaris for CSM is intended and they want to compensate them by giving out the free god power. Otherwise they would end up with 2 free powers.

Again, we have the perpetuation of the original mistake that Lord Asterion made and further proof that neither of you took a great deal of time to check the codex in all aspects for this particular argument – a significant failing in my opinion but then I do some work as a paralegal and I'm kind of a **** on those particulars.

So, no, there are no free powers being given to the CSM Psykers. In fact they are the ONLY codex that apparently cannot get any Primaris power for free as a result of following the new rules for Psykic Focus.

Then we had this exchange between Lord Asterion and you Charon:

They won't get the free Primairus from any other type because they won't only generate powers from one discipline, the whole point of the rule is that because they're marked they HAVE to take a god specific power, this way, they get a free power without having to dedicate themselves to the gods powers. Its really quite simple, sorry you didn't understand it and had a bit of a shout.

CD still dont HAVE to take a god specific power. They MAY.

Asterion was trying to reiterate the fact that both he and I had tried to make clear regarding the rules for CSM psykers IN the CSM Codex. You then went and referenced the Chaos Daemons Codex, which is a completely different army and codex...

Asterion was correct as well in that only a Sorcerer from the CSM Codex that chooses to NOT take a Mark of Chaos (and therefore loses out on a lot of buffs) is able to roll on a single Psykic Power Table (and quite possibly the only CSM psyker – daemon or otherwise – that can take all their powers from a Chaos God Psykic Powers table) and is therefore eligible for the free primaris power as a result of the new Psykic Focus rule.

And again, Lord Asterion made a follow up post that tried to clarify his point of quoting only from the CSM codex.

That wasn't the point, the point was you saying the Primarius doesn't count as the specific power for Marked and Daemons.

The rules don't say that anywhere.

To which you replied...

As you dont ROLL for the primaris (you get it for free, no dice involved) you still have to ROLL one power.

Again, the perpetuation of the original mistake.

Then, after Asterion made his “Seriously?” post, you made another post about referencing the Chaos Daemons Codex – which was not at all what our conversation and discussion had been based upon.

Seriously.
The wording is very different from the daemons codex. "may choose" and "must roll" are very different from each other.

Then DarkLink came in and made a post about “Chaos Psychic Focus” - which is only known to those that own a copy of the new rules (not everyone does DarkLink, so next time be a bit more cheritable in saying “Oh, didn't you know dear chap? There's a new rule in the new rulebook about it!”).

So now we all know that they DO indeed get the psykic power! Woohoo! However, that still doesn't solve the original issue that Lord Asterion and I were making: that Sorcerers with a Mark of Chaos and Daemons of a particular Chaos God FROM THE CSM CODEX, and Ahriman in particular, are not able to gain the primaris power from the non-Chaos God Psykic Power tables.

Ahriman with his Level 4 Mastery is stuck knowing “Tzeentch's Firestorm” and is forever incapable of taking the Primaris of Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telepathy. It's a stumbling block really. But I suppose that it is suppose to be the trade off in return for the benefits of the various Marks. Not a very good one in my opinion, but there it is.

So, long story short, you were misunderstanding us as a result of referencing a codex different from the one that Lord Asterion and I were referencing (Chaos Daemons Codex instead of Chaos Space Marines Codex) and grew exponentially snarky as the conversation went along.

[Kristopholes]

That was simply way too much work for your end point haha. Yes, Chaos Psychic Focus is in the new rule book and allows you to get the primaris power for free. I had a conversation about Chaos not being able to get psychic focus with some locals and it was pretty much agreed that THAT is the case. Ahriman gets screwed out of a primaris power (oh no, he can only have 5 powers!?!??!!) and other Chaos Sorcerers in order to get the regular psychic focus have to NOT take a Mark of Chaos. This of course is retarded when you're talking a +1 to invuln, initiative, toughness, over a freakin primaris power. They may FAQ it out with the rulebook FAQ but as you said, I think its something of a trade off for having devoted your soul to a Chaos God (who are as fickle as the dice we roll every game).

[DarkLink]

Then DarkLink came in and made a post about “Chaos Psychic Focus” - which is only known to those that own a copy of the new rules (not everyone does DarkLink, so next time be a bit more cheritable in saying “Oh, didn't you know dear chap? There's a new rule in the new rulebook about it!”).

Why are you sounding self-righteous to me? You posted something that was partially incorrect, so I mentioned that chaos had their own version of psychic focus. You didn't believe me, so I posted a picture of the rule. I missed that your main point was about other primaris powers, but csm and daemons do still get their primaris for free. Chill.

[sfshilo]

I actually think that not getting the free primaris for CSM is intended and they want to compensate them by giving out the free god power. Otherwise they would end up with 2 free powers.

It's to balance out the fact that DAEMONS and CSM cannot have a psychic focus due to their mark, unless they take all of their marked powers (But what is the point of that?)

It's actually kind of nice....

[Charon]

So, long story short, you were misunderstanding us as a result of referencing a codex different from the one that Lord Asterion and I were referencing (Chaos Daemons Codex instead of Chaos Space Marines Codex) and grew exponentially snarky as the conversation went along.

No there was no misuderstanding. There are 2 rules. Psychic focus (neither Daemons nor CSM qualifie for that) and their "chaos focus" (which grants you the gods primaris and prevents psychic focus from happening).
The thing is that Ahriman in your exampe gets the Firestorm and STILL has to roll one more power of Tzzentch s the rules clearly say he has to ROLL at least one power. You dont roll for the primaris, thus you will end up with 2 (!) Tzzentch powers.

It's to balance out the fact that DAEMONS and CSM cannot have a psychic focus due to their mark, unless they take all of their marked powers (But what is the point of that?)

It's actually kind of nice....

This is exactly what I was saying.

[Katharon]

Why are you sounding self-righteous to me? You posted something that was partially incorrect, so I mentioned that chaos had their own version of psychic focus. You didn't believe me, so I posted a picture of the rule. I missed that your main point was about other primaris powers, but csm and daemons do still get their primaris for free. Chill.

It's not self-righteous, it's fallacious anger. Obviously not everyone owns a copy of the rules yet and all you did was made a reference to it before posting that picture. Your 1st post just said that there was a rule that did say they got the primaris psyker for free and that Chaos had their own version of Focus -- to whit anyone without the new BRB wouldn't know. So if you had said "In the new BRB it says..." then the full context of your 1st post would have been understood and I would have believed you. Hence why posting the picture first would have been probably even better than anything.

Quite chill.

No there was no misuderstanding. There are 2 rules. Psychic focus (neither Daemons nor CSM qualifie for that) and their "chaos focus" (which grants you the gods primaris and prevents psychic focus from happening).
The thing is that Ahriman in your exampe gets the Firestorm and STILL has to roll one more power of Tzzentch s the rules clearly say he has to ROLL at least one power. You dont roll for the primaris, thus you will end up with 2 (!) Tzzentch powers.

There was, because they're two different codicies. The Chaos Psykic Focus rule covers for both the codicies, but the rules that Asterion and I were talking about were only from the CSM codex. And now *you're* the one parroting me. He does indeed have to roll on the Tzeentch table to generate one power -- but he is not allowed to take more than half of his powers from that table. He and other Sorcerers that have Marks are unable to take ALL their powers from a single psykic discipline -- which to me is a bit of a let down and the reason why I hope it will be FAQ'd in the future.

It's not an admission of losing anything, Charon, we were just talking from different perspectives not fully understanding each other due to the referencing of different codicies.