1750 Tournament marine list

[Waltz]

Hi All,

I am currently reworking my tournament SM’s army and was looking for a bit of input.

Firstly here is the army I was using (I have a WoC army I am painting so don’t want to do too much rework):

Darth Lysander
Librarian – Terminator Armour, Storm Shield (Null zone and STR 10 Blast)

Terminator assault squad – 4 TH/SS, 2 LC
Land raider Crusader – Multimelta

2 Land speeders – Multimelta/Heavy Flamer
2 Land speeders – Multimelta/Heavy Flamer

10 Man Tac Squad – PF, Melta Gun, MM
10 Man Tac Squad – PF, Melta Gun, MM

10 Man Tac Squad – PF, Flamer, MM
Rino

I had some success with it but there are some serious draw backs
-No shooting over 24”
-Death star unit, over reliance on the termies and Lysander to kill stuff
-Tactical squads don’t really do much, they are proving to be a waste of points.

So here is what I am thinking of changing to:

Librarian – Terminator Armour, Storm Shield (Null zone and STR 10 Blast)

Terminator assault squad – 4 TH/SS, 2 LC
Land raider Crusader – Multimelta

2 Land speeders – Multimelta/Heavy Flamer
2 Land speeders – Multimelta/Heavy Flamer
2 Land speeders – Multimelta/Heavy Flamer

5 Tactical Marines
Razor back – Twin HB
5 Tactical Marines
Razor back – Twin HB
5 Tactical Marines
Razor back – Twin HB
5 Tactical Marines
Razor back – Twin HB

Predator- AC/HB
Predator- AC/HB

This brings me in a lot more long range fire power, 2 extra speeders should give them a better chance as normally they get jumped on the first turn.

There are a couple of variations I am thinking of.

1) Drop one of the Land speeder squads and upgrade the Razorbacks to TL Las cannons
2) Drop one of the tac squads and take a vindicator (not sure about this as I would rather take two of something)

Any comments?

[Cryl]

I actually prefer the basis of the first list. Lysander and a libby is a big investment, dropping one is a good idea, even though the big L is a monster if your assault termies are going to kill something they'll do it with or without him.

I wouldn't take the S10 blast power, it relies on you being stationary, take something else with Null Zone, probably something shooty to make up for the lack of a stormbolter, but an assaulty power also works if you're putting him with the assault crew in the LRC. Give the LRC extra armour, being able to keep moving is worth a lot in an assault vehicle.

Give your tactical squads transports, either Razorbacks or rhinos but something to move them about, the reason you're struggling with them is that static squads aren't all that good especially with heavy melta weapons. Try out lascannons in those squads, you can always combat squad to avoid wasting all your bolters and it does give you 'reach out and touch someone' capability.

I don't like HF on landspeeders, I'd rather see either another MM or two HB for horde killing. Being close enough to use a HF on a landspeeder seems very unwise to me. I think I'm the only marine player in existence who thinks that way though and you'll probably get loads of advice to keep them with the HF. Splitting your speeders up even further (you may have enough points for more than 4 if you tweak the rest of the list) will allow you to hit more targets with them, deepstrike anti armour attacks can be very effective with MM speeders should you choose to play that way.

[Waltz]

I wouldn't take the S10 blast power, it relies on you being stationary, take something else with Null Zone, probably something shooty to make up for the lack of a stormbolter, but an assaulty power also works if you're putting him with the assault crew in the LRC. Give the LRC extra armour, being able to keep moving is worth a lot in an assault vehicle.

The str 10 is a shooting attack and since terminator armour lets you move and shoot as if stationary he can use it

Extra Armour on the LR I didn't think of, will see if I can fit that in

Give your tactical squads transports, either Razorbacks or rhinos but something to move them about, the reason you're struggling with them is that static squads aren't all that good especially with heavy melta weapons. Try out lascannons in those squads, you can always combat squad to avoid wasting all your bolters and it does give you 'reach out and touch someone' capability.

Thats why in the revised list I have them in razor backs, I am just going to use them for objective capturing as they tend to die horrible in the tournments I have been to.

[Chumbalaya]

The death star is crazy pricey, but if you too two LRs with Termies you might like that better. It would be your entire army, but 2 LRs is difficult to handle at 1750.

I don't think Lysander is all that necessary really. TH/SS Termies and the Librarian do plenty as is. Dropping him frees up points for a pair of dakka Preds and lets you get rid of stubborn.

You could do something like this:
Librarian w/ TDA, SS
5 TH/SS Termies, LRC w/ xa, MM
2x TLAC Dreads
3x Tac Squads-10, MM, F, combi-melta, Rhino
MM/HF Speeder
2x AC/HB Preds

You have a lot more firepower at range, allowing you to disable mech from afar to give your Termies an easier job. They are still the focus, but losing them doesn't spell disaster since you've got tons of firepower to support them.

[Cryl]

The str 10 is a shooting attack and since terminator armour lets you move and shoot as if stationary he can use it

Yup you're quite right, for some reason I read the termie armour then completely ignored the benefits of it, my mistake. Too used to power armour libbys to pod with sternguard I guess!

Chumby suggests two raiders at 1750 which is pretty nasty... libby with the spec you suggest two 5 man termie assault squads, 2 raiders with extra armour and MM, with 2 or 3 speeders and 2 tacticals in rhinos is doable at that points level and although you don't get much long range firepower it's a nasty list.

I do like his suggested list with 2 dakka preds in, they're my new favourite unit, they're stupidly cheap for what they are. Even throwing lascannon sponsons on them they're still cheap for what they do

[Waltz]

Definatly going with the two dakka preds, well worth having.

TBH I have decided to change to the lsit I posted, I am more looking for thoughts on the detail (i.e should I drop two speeders to take the twin las on the razor backs or fit a vindicator in there)

[Cryl]

Personally I'd put lascannon sponsons on the preds instead of the heavy bolters. Leave the razorbacks as they are. AV11 with a 35 point upgrade just cries out to be popped open, at least a pred is AV13 at the front. Single Vindicator is going to get killed quickly, it's a threat people can't ignore and a single glance of weapon destroyed can neuter that threat in a single shot.