Maelstrom Missions: Nope, thats not narrative gaming.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The "hashed together at the last minute" explanation can't be correct: 7th ed. integrates too many things we've been seeing since at least the release of Apocalypse (Dataslates, Supplements (with variant lists like Farsight Enclaves or Inquisitorial Detachments, which didn't have Troops), Escalation and Stronghold Assault). This edition's been in gestation for at least a year. "After the financial report" is too slight a window, and the dots of all the last year or so's releases join too neatly for 7th to have been a last-minute rushjob.

I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not.

[Harley]

I don't not believe you... But as a writer myself I think it's really strange that holes big enough to fly a thunderhawk through made it. The normal editing process and a lunch break should have brought up stuff like "So how's shadow in the warp work now?" Or "I play Tau, what am I supposed to do with the 'Harness the Warp' Objective?" That's the sort of thing that doesn't even need a real playtest, just an afternoon of spitballing during a copy editing session in the conference room

Welcome to Warhammer. Players have been saying these things for many years only now it seems to be at new, absurd levels. There have always been gaping holes in the rules with unanswered questions like "Can Deathrays shoot into combat" "What happens if Whip Coils make GKs Init1 but Warpspeed makes them Init10?"...

Now we are dealing with "Hey, is the primaris power for Sanctic powers WC1 or 3?". Simple questions that anyone reading the books and cards would ask. Simple questions which the cobbled together FAQ doesn't answer.

The "hashed together at the last minute" explanation can't be correct: 7th ed. integrates too many things we've been seeing since at least the release of Apocalypse (Dataslates, Supplements (with variant lists like Farsight Enclaves or Inquisitorial Detachments, which didn't have Troops), Escalation and Stronghold Assault). This edition's been in gestation for at least a year. "After the financial report" is too slight a window, and the dots of all the last year or so's releases join too neatly for 7th to have been a last-minute rushjob.

I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not.

7th edition has finally reached what 40k has been careening toward since 5th edition which is Apocalypse as norm. Flyers and Skyfire, Superheavies, D Weapons, Unbound, allies sharing transports... all of these were in Apoc 5th edition and GW wants that as standard play because it becomes an arms/buying race for models.

[Caitsidhe]

The "hashed together at the last minute" explanation can't be correct: 7th ed. integrates too many things we've been seeing since at least the release of Apocalypse (Dataslates, Supplements (with variant lists like Farsight Enclaves or Inquisitorial Detachments, which didn't have Troops), Escalation and Stronghold Assault). This edition's been in gestation for at least a year. "After the financial report" is too slight a window, and the dots of all the last year or so's releases join too neatly for 7th to have been a last-minute rushjob.

I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not.

Actually, you are kind of proving my point. All they did (because they had so little time) was combine the stuff they had been releasing and add a PAGE of Faq/Errata that was going to be released at some point for 6th. If you are correct (rather than me) the implications are even FUNNIER. That means that the new edition was "in gestation" barely a year after the release of 6th. Does that make them sound any less BAD?

[Harley]

Actually, you are kind of proving my point. All they did (because they had so little time) was combine the stuff they had been releasing and add a PAGE of Faq/Errata that was going to be released at some point for 6th. If you are correct (rather than me) the implications are even FUNNIER. That means that the new edition was "in gestation" barely a year after the release of 6th. Does that make them sound any less BAD?

I don't buy that. I think it's deliberate, not a mistake of a rushed project. Take 5th edition, add in Apocalypse and Imperial Armour rules, throw in the new Psychic phase and whalla, you have 7th edition.

[Caitsidhe]

Let's put things in perspective shall we? I have listed the two release dates of 6th and 7th Edition below:

Sixth Edition was released on the 23rd of June, 2012.
7th Edition had a release date of May 24th, 2014.

That means we are one month shy of two years between editions. Let that swirl around in your mouth a bit. How does that taste? Then consider the fact that this newest edition was either:

1. Thrown together in a short period of time, let's say six month or so....
2. Or it has been thoughtfully planned out and designed for over a year.

Swish that around in your mouth. Which of those tastes better to you?

1. That they foisted a new edition on us that they threw together in six months by simply consolidating the books you already bought and added a mere page of Faqs?
2. Or that the ink was barely dry on 6th Edition when they were already designing and preparing 7th to pick your pocket again (using almost identical rules)?

Now, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but being someone who has worked in the College environment for a number of years (and many of us experienced this as students as well), I can't help but notice the possible similarity to the "textbook scam" wherein a new version of the book is put out every year to two years wherein they have shuffled chapters and changed just enough to try and force you to buy the newer edition. So what is your poison?

Do you like the idea that they threw this together and charged us for it?

Or do you like the fact that they planned to pick your pocket several times over?

[DarkLink]

This is not at all true, their were codexes written with this in mind, the Eldar and AM one for example and they lead times are huge for these, this has been part of the plan for a long time and for good reason.

Stop being bitter and entitled. You've obviously never played this edition, same with DarkLink, or he wouldn't say such nonsense about it.

You do realize I have, in fact, played 7th edition. I specifically mention doing so earlier in the thread. It would also do you well to understand that people are allowed to hold a different opinion than you do, and it doesn't make them bad people for doing so. You are not the center of the universe.

[Harley]

Do you like the idea that they threw this together and charged us for it?

Or do you like the fact that they planned to pick your pocket several times over?

Meh, screw that. As has been said, don't give GW your money. Get a tablet to run .epub versions of the books or even print them out in a binder at the library/work. Buy your models from friends, eBay, discounters like Spiky Bits or Miniature Market, other miniature lines or make your own.

Still enjoy the game, fluff and good times modelling, painting and playing because 40k is more than GW's cash cow and we can make it our own.

[Caitsidhe]

Meh, screw that. As has been said, don't give GW your money. Get a tablet to run .epub versions of the books or even print them out in a binder at the library/work. Buy your models from friends, eBay, discounters like Spiky Bits or Miniature Market, other miniature lines or make your own.

Still enjoy the game, fluff and good times modelling, painting and playing because 40k is more than GW's cash cow and we can make it our own.

Sage advice. You and I are on the same page.

[Erik Setzer]

Also u need a balanced army to play them correctly. So unbound armies are pretty much useless in this mission type.

Not necessarily. Depends on the type of Unbound army. I used an Unbound army and did pretty decent, actually pulled out a win at the last moment in a close back-and-forth match in the last one (but I had to wreck a couple Troops squads to do it).

Granted, my army wasn't something like "ten Riptides," it was:

Chapter Master in Terminator Armor
Chaplain in Terminator Armor
Librarian in Terminator Armor
5 Terminators with Assault Cannon
5 Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launcher
6 Assault Terminators with two Thunder Hammers
Land Raider
Land Raider Crusader with multi melta
Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon and Dreadnought CCW
Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon and missile launcher
(2000 points)

The Land Raiders let me move my Terminators up quickly (the Chapter Master and Chaplain were with the Assault squad in the LRC), and I kept moving around the table constantly, moving to grab objectives while focusing fire to take down units that could hold over mine.

Granted, as Unbound armies go, that's not exactly "unbalanced," but it *is* Unbound. Not all Unbound armies will be insane messes, though.

[Lord Asterion]

You do realize I have, in fact, played 7th edition. I specifically mention doing so earlier in the thread. It would also do you well to understand that people are allowed to hold a different opinion than you do, and it doesn't make them bad people for doing so. You are not the center of the universe.

I am sorry but I don't think that's true, or you wouldn't think that they were that bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Sage advice. You and I are on the same page.

So, you're both thieves. Good to know.