"New" Tyranids how to play them/what to take

[MVBrandt]

I can understand why you'd be a fan of Zoeys, but trust me that with play you'll find they are kinda crap in the reliability and durability department. Heck, even St@lek is starting to field them over Zoeys in all of his lists, and that's after taking me to task for daring to suggest HG's were more reliable in practice. /whistle

Also, taking a subpar unit in all senses just hoping you don't run up against a multi-LR list that you can manage if you have to anyway ... is unwise. You'll notice that you don't have to invent that one achilles heel list when touting the HG ... i.e. for the Zoeys they are only better in one scenario, and it keeps getting harped on anywhere you look. The HG are better everywhere else and you still have 6+ monsters and multiple S10 shots by the time they get there ... so it's not like you're sitting totally screwed by the multi-raider lists ... AT ALL. You're just not quite as omgwtfpotent vs. them as you are vs. everything else. It's not even a harp on Hive Guard ... i.e. they don't just make the list omgwtfpwn everything. They're just a valuable/reliable component that is MORE valuable/reliable, esp. for their purpose, than zoeys. Zoeys are still cool/great/interesting/intriguging/awesome/etc.

[Drakkan Vael]

It is always easy to imangine how Zoas are worse than Hive Guard or Hive Guard as more durable as Zoas.
In most of the games I played until now, the HG died long before the Zoas, as my opponents quickly realised their potential for wreaking havoc with the transports.
Even 4+ cover save does not significantly up the survivability of HG if hit by mulitlasers, heavy bolters or shuriken cannons. They die as fast as Zoas.

I do like them both, but would not prefer one above the other.

Don't mistake me, I'm not overly satisfied with the codex. It has far too many loopholes (Mawloc, Doom of Malantai, even the size of the marker for the Trygon tunnel entrance), and far too many stupid weapon choices (I pay one point per gaunts for spinefists? Which is worse than the weapon the gaunts come with naturally? Come on...).
And many other things I'm not pleased with.

But wishing does not change even one letter. This is the codex we've got for this edition of the rules and at least some year into the 6th. So why no throw in all brainpower and start inventing uses for seemingly worthless units.

Everyone can play Space Marines, Imps or Wolves.

[Ulf]

Although MVBrandt wrote a lot of true things in his roundup, there is one thing that I really have to object to:

[...]
Old One Eye - LOLOLOL.
[...]

A lot of the recent Tyranid-talk shares this opinion, but I don't - maybe I'm somewhat oldfashioned, but a creature with up to 16 Strength 10 MC-Attacks on the charge is awesome in my book - thats more than a 3 strong unit of "normal" fexes can dish out.

On average, he gets 4+2+1 (don't forget he has crushing claws, +d3 attacks) Attacks on the charge, with WS 3 and reroll 1s for scything talons thats around ~4 hits against most enemies (WS3-6), which grants him another 4 attacks, which sums up to 11 attacks. Give him preferred enemy via a Swarmlord if you want to make sure stuff hits the fan.

The improved regeneration is risky, as it forces the opponent to concentrate fire even more, but with careful deployment (via Trygon tunnel for example) you can maximize his chances to arrive in close combat.

[Chumbalaya]

Old One Eye has to make it to combat, that ain't happening.

@ MVB, I have been playtesting since I got the leaked codex and still find Zoeys to be incredibly useful. HG have their place, they just don't fit in certain builds that Zoeys do. St@lek was brutal on that whole discussion as always, but it seems that it's more of that Socratic method junk, forcing people to defend their stances and whatnot. They're both awesome, that's the problem :P

[Lyracian]

I think MVBrandt has said most of it. Like others I am not completely convinced on the Hive Guard vs Zoanthrope debate. There are some interesting ideas about using them on DakkaDakka. They do offer Synapse and Shadow in the Warp which Guard do not.

Biovores are actually cheaper. In the 4th Ed Dex you had to pay X +2Y for the Spore mines. Now you just pay X+Y and get the Spore Mines for free. Spore Mines taken as Fast Attack look like they only really work if the Tyranid player gets the first turn so they get to drift apart. Otherwise the cluster is still together and a single shot will start a chain reaction and take the rest of them out as well.

Gargoyles can still glance AV 10 with Fleshborers and also on the charge if they take Adrenal Glands. After the Tervigon/Gaunt combo I think they are the best infantry choice in the codex. With Blinding Poison they do not even need any upgrades. A large swarm should give Monsters a cover save and will be the front line (with FNP) in my army.

The Tryanofex, Carnifex and Tyrant all seem over costed. Each of these should have been about 30 points cheaper (and wings half the cost) to really be worth putting on the battlefield. They will all still be used as they do something unique. Tyranofex for long range anti-tank, Carnifex broods for kiling Land Raiders and Bioplasma, Tyrant for Psi powers and Special Abilities.

[Madjob]

The Tryanofex, Carnifex and Tyrant all seem over costed. Each of these should have been about 30 points cheaper (and wings half the cost) to really be worth putting on the battlefield.

I don't think even that is enough for the Tyrannofex - I'd have only paid well under 200 points for its base statline/biomorphs (170-180 points perhaps). I really don't think Tyranids are so desperate to have that small of a chance of doing anything to AV14 at 48" range that you'd pay 265+ points for it.

[mstingray]

I personally think that the tervigon won't be as competitive as people think, as some games it could do amazingly and produce well over 60 gaunts, and others it might produce only 5 or 6, and in tournaments most armies need something lot more reliable than the tervigon. Another point is that by giving every gaunt unit within 6" special rules and LD bonuses players will make sure gaunt units are right next to the tervigon so if it dies to shooting the gaunt squads are going to be all but destroyed. Although I do like the tervigon and will definately take one its not something I think you can rely on to turn the game (unless its on an objective)

Also I don't think that the tyrannofex is decent, especially with BS3, something most people seem to overlook, which means effectively you're going to hit once per turn, against land raiders I think you're better off getting up close with a trygon, or using a zoanthrope.

[Ferro]

but with careful deployment (via Trygon tunnel for example) you can maximize [Old One Eye's] chances to arrive in close combat.

Sorry sir, not possible. Trygon tunnels allow for infantry only, not MCs. Note that this excludes Raveners too, which is a contender for the dumbest damn thing in this codex.

Old One Eye has to make it to combat, that ain't happening.

Quoted for truth. --if you start with him on the board. Hold him in reserves and maybe he'll walk on turns 2-4 depending on your rolls. Then, if you're lucky enough to have bad guys wrecking your lines, O1E can mix it up. I do absolutely have a fondness for this guy, and will try to make space for him in my lists every now and then

I personally think that the tervigon won't be as competitive as people think, as some games it could do amazingly and produce well over 60 gaunts, and others it might produce only 5 or 6, and in tournaments most armies need something lot more reliable than the tervigon.

I think that in time you will see this sentiment proven wrong. Each Tervigon statistically produce 29 guants before rolling doubles, and the power, buffs, and awesomeness of these guys cannot be overstated.

[crazyredpraetorian]

Sorry sir, not possible. Trygon tunnels allow for infantry only, not MCs. Note that this excludes Raveners too, which is a contender for the dumbest damn thing in this codex.


Quoted for truth. --if you start with him on the board. Hold him in reserves and maybe he'll walk on turns 2-4 depending on your rolls. Then, if you're lucky enough to have bad guys wrecking your lines, O1E can mix it up. I do absolutely have a fondness for this guy, and will try to make space for him in my lists every now and then


I think that in time you will see this sentiment proven wrong. Each Tervigon statistically produce 29 guants before rolling doubles, and the power, buffs, and awesomeness of these guys cannot be overstated.

Unless it gets JoWWed on turn 1.

[MVBrandt]

If it's a single RP w/ JoWW it's going to possibly kill one or two before it gets megapunked by firepower, b/c it's within 24" of the Tyranid army, or closer. If it's a bunch of RP's, then yeah you've figured out an anti-Nid build. But seriously ... not aimed at you b/c you're joking, but there's a lot of use of things like JoWW and other responses as "duh that makes all those things not a good idea." Certainly the Tyranid have some achilles heels and some good builds to use against them, but such replies are the basic equivalent of list tailoring. When someone puts out something they think is good, evaluate it on the whole scope of the game in an all comer's situation, rather than just pointing out one thing that will beat it as if that totally nullifies the point.

Again, not really aimed at you Crazy, just at that in general as it's been occurring.