"New" Tyranids how to play them/what to take

[gcsmith]

if only infantry can use it how come raveners use it in the wd battle report

[Ulf]

Sorry sir, not possible. Trygon tunnels allow for infantry only, not MCs. Note that this excludes Raveners too, which is a contender for the dumbest damn thing in this codex.

I'm glad you pointed that out, I totally failed to notice that aspect of the rule.

[Ferro]

(@MVB: you're absolutely right, but just FYI; Crazyred is a local, and I think he's just taunting me. We have a LGS tourney tomorrow. I think I know what he's planning now.)

[crazyredpraetorian]

If it's a single RP w/ JoWW it's going to possibly kill one or two before it gets megapunked by firepower, b/c it's within 24" of the Tyranid army, or closer. If it's a bunch of RP's, then yeah you've figured out an anti-Nid build. But seriously ... not aimed at you b/c you're joking, but there's a lot of use of things like JoWW and other responses as "duh that makes all those things not a good idea." Certainly the Tyranid have some achilles heels and some good builds to use against them, but such replies are the basic equivalent of list tailoring. When someone puts out something they think is good, evaluate it on the whole scope of the game in an all comer's situation, rather than just pointing out one thing that will beat it as if that totally nullifies the point.

Again, not really aimed at you Crazy, just at that in general as it's been occurring.

MV, I was referring to a game last night. Ferro plays at the same FLGS. I was playing another Nid player and got off a minor alpha strike. Just a little local trash talk.

[Codeman90]

Alright I gotta defend some units here or I'll feel bad about not stopping all of the SUPER COMPETETIVE TYRANID LSITS with a variety consisting of 4 different models (Hive Guard, Trygons, Tervigons and Termagants).

I've done a few playtests and I think Hormagaunts have gotten significantly better. I5 makes a HUGE difference, hitting before marines helps alot and the loss of weapon skill does hurt but poisoned attacks backed up by the Hive Tyrant/ Swarmlord baillities they can run an overconfident marnie squad into the dirt before they even get to attack back.

The Swarmlord is a great unit, I've plowed through squads like nothing and the amount of dread he causes is immense. Opponents steer clear, he's a good unit but for making an opponent re-roll successful invuls and causing Instant Death? He couldn't cost any less or he would be the cheesiest model in the game.

Tervigons are OK but I'm not that impressed. He's tough (kind of) but all it does is sit there and crap termagants all over the place. he gives them bonuses too but they have to make sure they're really close and I think thats going to be the most damaging part. I play Imperial Guard and Tyranids. My IG hell hounds will have a field day, ordnance too. how could I miss? they're all in a condensed blob.

Hive Guard also have a flaw in that they are $20 a model and nobody has any "official" ones yet. they also die fast. 2 wounds and a 4+ save with a 24" gun? they'll be dead before they get anywhere NEAR the transports. and even if they do they only have a 50% chance (against the average transport) chance of doing anything. with a 3+ invul I think the Zoanthrope has better survivability (at least they have an invul) also for getting 6" closer you get the chance to nuke any vehicle stupid enough to get near you, its an 18" Railgun!

[pelmen78]

Codeman,

Horms are good at killing infantry, but so is everything else in the book, essentially. Ergo, they don't stand out because they don't have the ability to do more. They also don't have a lot of survivability, as we get into that whole "how many make it into CC, and will it be enough" dynamic.

The swarmlord is a great unit, yes, but he's expensive, and his ranged stuff doesn't effect (affect?) vehicles. Basically he's good at counter-assault, as the more savvy and better equipped enemies will ignore and avoid him.

Tevigons are a defensive MC that's useful for soaking fire, holding objectives, and boosting units with Catalyst. It's too bad they can't cast more than one psy power at a time. The trick to them is not to spawn until turn 4 or 5 if you can, and hope the enemy doesn't have enough firepower to take out any of the gaunts you spawn. Also note that he's a pretty good counter assault unit too, since he can spawn a squad of gaunts to throw into any units that assault him.

I've played with drop zoanthropes and Hive guard, and I'm still torn. You forget that HG are T6, and should be further away than more pressing threats to the enemy. I've had trouble with them since they're only S8 guns, and that doesn't reliably kill vehicles for me. I still require more testing.

The modelling problem isn't universal. Personally I took some 2nd edition warriors I had laying around, added Fex plates to their backs, and then greenstuffed some big guns on them. Voila', 6 Hg at a $0 cost to me, other than in time to assemble and paint.

[Codeman90]

While the Swarmlord is expensive I think he couldn't reasonably be any chaeaper. 18" synapse range, powerful psychic abillities and ridiculous close combat rules make him very powerful, also its good if people avoid him. You want the objective? you'll have to kill the swarmlord and the gaunts.

Hormagaunts are alright, they're just as viable as termagaunts. The only reason no one will take them is because tervigons cant spawn them, which is fairly dissapointing as I would have a blast with FNP hormagaunts but such is life. I would get the Hive Guard but the Str8 worries me. I play gaurd as well (Infantry based Catachan army actually) and I have horrible track record with missiles. they might be ok. I prefer the killing power of the Zoanthrope but the Hive Guard are good too.

I'll most likely bring at least one Tervigon (because there wont exist tyranid lists that dont have at least one and a list with only one is going to be REALLY rare). They're a good unit and my termagaunts could use the help.

[MVBrandt]

There's an analytical process required when identifying Tyranid points costs and what's "wrong" with them.

Swarmlords are priced properly for all of their abilities in a vaccuum, but the problem is that they're forcing you to pay for all of those abilities in the "base" cost. Think of, say, Wave Serpents. Wave Serpents are an extremely expensive transport in comparison to the current game, where armies are often rife with s7 and s8 firepower built to tackle the AV12 spam of the new guard. This devalues the Energy Field of a serpent significantly, and it's probably ~30 points of the vehicle's base cost. How many Eldar players would happily DROP the Energy Field if they could get their serpents down to a base points cost of about 50? It'd still be balanced and points appropriate. They'd be happy to pay 30 points to equip Serpents with an Energy Field.

The Swarmlord is basically in the same boat. While a very dangerous unit whose points cost is appropriate for what he does, its functionality is severely hampered by the fact that you're paying for a lot of side abilities and psy powers that you either will probably never use, or that you'd be happy to have as OPTIONS in exchange for a lower base cost and therefore more flexibility to fit into differing builds.

I think it's important to think on any entry that way ... imagine if you HAD to pay for one of the doctrines for each Veteran Squad in the Guard dex and their base cost were 100 + extras ... it would make them a worse unit, even though the doctrines are all arguably quite powerful and are certainly worth 30 points each.

[Codeman90]

You make a good point. Which is why I would prefer the Swarmlord NOT be a special character. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for a few games. If his unit doesnt perform well enough for his cost I'll brobably drop him for a second Hive tyrant with a Heavy Venom Cannon

I think the gargoyles are alright. I have a squad of 20 of them and the Blinding Venom rule is very nice. I would almost consider not deep striking them but it makes them a target. At 6 points the are at least useable unlike the crap 12 point ones in the old dex.

[Tarrandus]

So, what's the opinion on Bonesword Warriors? On paper they look great, they cut through marines like butter, not to mention that they totally screw necrons, ignoring WBB and insta-killing that pesky Lord with the Res Orb.

Of course they're expensive, fragile, and have a huge target on thier heads. Just like everything else in the codex
I can't figure out the best way to deliver them. Footslogging means that they are going to get shot to hell and back, seeing as how nasty they are in assault. Dropping them in a spore on the other hand makes them just about useless till turn 3-4, and I don't see tying up that many points being a good idea.

So, are they relegated to Awesome but Impractical, or is there some way to make them work?