A fine day (for characters) to die!

[Harley]

TLDR: For your own personal narrative, when does a model "die" in game and not just become too injured to fight on, knocked unconscious etc? My idea is only on failed armor saves of a 1. But what about against low AP weapons? Ideas?

Having been playing Sisters of Battle a little... too long, I've gotten to the point where I've named all of my squads and half their members. (In the Adepta Sororitas it works a little differently, squads are named after their leader, for example Dominion squad Bellatrix would be led by Dominion Superior Bellatrix) anyways I like to record their victories and failures in game.

A young Bellatrix's squad once charged an Ork Battle Wagon which she detonated with her Melta Gun before assaulting the horde of Lootaz inside. Bravely, her team slew the survivors of the burning wreck in close combat before turning to the next Battle Wagon rolling their way. While dodging bullets, Bellatrix and only one other remaining Sister, their weapons aimed true with the Emperor's glory and rendered this oncoming hulk into another burning heap... but the onslaught of fire from the Orks was too much and she sought cover, retreating nearby after her final companion was slain. Then, knocked unconscious from the sweeping tides of Orks, she was later found breathing on the battle field and returned to her convent by the surviving Sisters who honored her with the promotion to Sister Superior for her deeds that day.

So what is a reasonable mechanic for deciding when a model has actually been killed vs just too injured to fight on? My thought is only on a failed armor save of a 1, but what about against weapons that allow no armor save like a Lascannon? Even a toppling blow from such a powerful weapon might only maim it's victim, who with the proper medical care, could live to fight another day... just not that day.

Any good ideas? Perhaps an out of game "death" save based on toughness?

[kharne690]

True hero's never die!!!!!

Unless the death is suitable epic.

[Anggul]

I guess it depends on the weapon. A lasgun might leave you recoverable, and a bolt round that glances rather than penetrating (and thus blowing up your insides) might take a chunk out of you but you could be recovered. Something as powerful as a plasma weapon, lascannon, meltagun, blaster etc is going to kill you even on a glancing blow because of the sheer intensity of the heat it produces. There are few weapons that you'll actually be recovering from in 40k, which makes it quite hard to say: 'he isn't dead, just wounded and put out of action'. Even a space marine isn't going to survive a plasma blast, let alone any other human. Close combat is more likely to leave you wounded rather than dead than shooting is I suppose.

40k is fairly abstract though. I think of it as an extreme fast-forwarding of events. Taking cover in ruins, for example, is going to protect you a heck of a lot more than a 4+ cover save, but if cover were represented realistically the game would take hours. I imagine that in real time the firefights last for ages as they would, but every round of shooting represents lengthy exchanges sped up for our convenience. In the same way, you could say that characters of particular significance go down in ways which would allow them to be recovered. For example, that lascannon didn't actually hit her, but blew a chunk out of the wall which in turn incapacitated her.

You could also occasionally rename squads during campaigns to represent the death of the leader and a new one taking over.

[Eberk]

In our campaign Heroes never die. (Heroes = HQ choice)

When removed from play they roll on an Injury table from which they will receive a random handicap. This injury lingers until they heal (rolling on an experience table).


Squads, vehicles, monsters, etc... can be named but is not needed and you can do with them whatever you want. Use the same name over and over, or choose another once removed from play during a battle or choose another name in every battle.


If you don't want you named sister to die, then don't let her... When hit by a Plasma blast for example you can still say she saw it comming and ducked out of the way and the blast just knocked her senseless. She then recovered after the battle a little bit dazed but uninjured.

[mocapman]

Close combat is more likely to leave you wounded rather than dead than shooting is I suppose.

I think more people would meet their end in close combat. Once an enemy is down/wounded/unconscious it's much easier to slip a combat blade into an eye socket/curb stomp them or pummel them into the dust with the butt of a gun or nearby rock. Necromunda did this well. If an enemy was shot there was a chance that it was a flesh wound and they would go down but not out. In close combat, if an opponent went down you automatically rolled on the injury table. I agree about plasma weapons and the like. I did play Inquisitor for a bit and in that a lascannon struggled to one shot a Space Marine (in fact it couldn't kill it outright but wound him enough to put him on his back only). That was a bit odd though and never sat well with me. A lascannon would punch a large hole in any regular marine.

[Mr Mystery]

I think more people would meet their end in close combat. Once an enemy is down/wounded/unconscious it's much easier to slip a combat blade into an eye socket/curb stomp them or pummel them into the dust with the butt of a gun or nearby rock. Necromunda did this well. If an enemy was shot there was a chance that it was a flesh wound and they would go down but not out. In close combat, if an opponent went down you automatically rolled on the injury table. I agree about plasma weapons and the like. I did play Inquisitor for a bit and in that a lascannon struggled to one shot a Space Marine (in fact it couldn't kill it outright but wound him enough to put him on his back only). That was a bit odd though and never sat well with me. A lascannon would punch a large hole in any regular marine.

Best bit in Inquisitor? Space Marine did more damage throwing Bolt Shells at the opponent than firing them..... We found that out when a Marine lobbed an unprimed krak grenade, and took my dude's head clear off.

[Harley]

I guess it depends on the weapon.

Yes, you make some good points here. Games of 40k do happen as kind of an accelerated simulation of a battle rather than a true representation. For example, close combat could go on and on for a long time, yet in game it happens in moments of dice being thrown.


I have to disagree though about Plasma, Lascannons etc. Honestly, if you shot someone's arm off with a Melta gun, the wound would instantly cauterize and they wouldn't lose nearly as much blood as getting hit by a Stubber in the gut. Their body would go into shock and the pain would be immense, they probably would pass out but given proper, timely medical attention someone who lost a limb can survive just fine.

What I would really like is a mini game mechanic. Sure I can just choose who dies and who doesn't but that isn't as exciting

*Could a mod, if you have the time, fix the title of this thread? Thanks. [/COLOR]

[Eberk]

What I would really like is a mini game mechanic. Sure I can just choose who dies and who doesn't but that isn't as exciting

Roll a d6 after the game for each model you want (HQ, sergeants, troops,...)

1,2 and 3 -> Light injury (nothing happens)
4 and 5 -> Heavy injury (must miss next battle)
6 -> Dead (over and out)

And if you really want you could add a +1 for AP2 weapons and +2 for AP1 weapons.

Something like that ??

[Harley]

Thanks Eberk, that seems like a pretty reasonable method... kind of like a character damage chart.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Dark Eldar Archons need never do something so passé as die, darling.