Questions on Salamanders

[Camael]

So I have decided to go full-bore and make my Space Marines a Salamanders successor, but now I have a few questions for the community to help me flesh out my lists without deviating too much from the fluff. The core premises and questions I have are:

Most, if not all, of my armies will be led by a counts-as Vulkan with a command squad with 5 flamers because it will point to an enemy infantry unit and make it go away.

I have decided that the core of my army is going to be made up of drop pods, because drop pods. Well, that and I think it is the best way to deliver my melta a flamers to the enemy.

How many Tactical Squads, armed with all-out melta, should I bring? How many men should they be at, say, 1850?

In my test games, 5 man suicide Assault Squads with 2 flamers have worked really well. Is this something I should use as a supplement to Vulkan and his Command Squad most of the time?

Can I use flyers without being a complete jerk who only accepts the fluff when it suits him? I am under the impression that the reason the Salamanders don't use a lot of flyers, land speeders, bikes, etc. is because of the wonky gravity on their home planet.

If I shouldn't use flyers, are Hunters or Stalkers an acceptable substitute? If so, which?

What should I use to kill monstrous creatures? One of the seeming shortcomings of many types of Space Marines, and Salamanders in particular, is that their options for reliably killing things of toughness 6+ is rather limited. I have come up with a few ways I might be able to combat this: Sternguard in drop pods (Maybe combi weapons?) and use hellfire rounds. Rifleman Dreads. Terminators in a Redeemer with cyclone missile launchers.

Any help you guys could provide would be great. Thanks in advance and I apologize for any typos or grammatical errors.

[davel]

Well the though your drop tactic is valid in a new world of uber scoring troops it is well to remember that flammers are great for large cheap blobs of foes. Will the marines kill enough to make their sacrifice (as no decent player will let them flame a second time). Where as two melts may take out a monolith or the like. Though vehicles are now tougher in 7th.
It remains to be seen how valid the concept of make you points back in 7th but it is worth considering

2nd thing is using what sounds like your warlord in a suicide squad, slay the warlord remains a secondary objective plus a lot of the new maelstrom cards award extra points for doing nasty things to charters. The pod drop may give you first blood but if he dies you are potential back to square on or worse.

Last thing drop pod armies ( or elements of pod) are not the nasty surprise that they are made out to be in the fluff. I have faced them many times and often experienced players will know how to mitigate their damage or take advantage of their randomly spaced set up ( or both). my eldar can deal with drop pods very effectively.

Hope that helps

Dave l

[farfromsam]

Dave paints a bleak (albeit realisitic) picture for an all drop pod army. You may consider using the drop pods as harassment/flank units, while the rest of your army fights, secures objectives, or contests. Deep striking terminators onto a locator beacon can be effective if you support them, or put them in a LR redeemer with your counts as Vulkan, It'd help you keep slay the warlord in your favor.

[ElectricPaladin]

I have decided that the core of my army is going to be made up of drop pods, because drop pods. Well, that and I think it is the best way to deliver my melta a flamers to the enemy.

I didn't find the situation with drop pods to be entirely bleak, but it does require some luck and forethought to pull off. The trouble with drop pods is that your army will be fast but not versatile. That is, you will be able to put your dudes where you want them - wherever you want them - but once they are there, they will have to footslog it. If your opponent manages to bluff you, outthink you, or put you on your back foot, your ability to respond will be sharply limited. You better hope that drop pod assault does its job, because if it doesn't, you are screwed.

How many Tactical Squads, armed with all-out melta, should I bring? How many men should they be at, say, 1850?

I've found that two or three is fine at that level.

Can I use flyers without being a complete jerk who only accepts the fluff when it suits him? I am under the impression that the reason the Salamanders don't use a lot of flyers, land speeders, bikes, etc. is because of the wonky gravity on their home planet.

Flyers aren't the be-all end-all anymore, because almost everyone has either a decent flyer or decent anti-air. I would say that flyers do enough to transform the game, however, that you might want to have a chat about it with your opponent before you start and have an alternate list on hand. At 1850, you aren't really "that guy" for bringing a flyer - I always have either a flyer or an answer to a flyer at any list 1500 or bigger - but you know, it never hurts to be cool. A little consideration can easily make you "that other guy," the one who everyone wants to play with, who can always be counted on to give a good game.

As far as the fluff goes, remember that your dudes are Salamander successors. I'm all for fluffy army builds, but successors can be as similar to or as different from their parent chapter as you like, not to mention that individual captains can organize their companies according to their own idiosyncrasies. The Lamenters, for example, may have to field a death company, because they are still subject to the Blood Angels gene-curse, but they try to fight like Space Marines, preferring tactical squads to assault squads, and so on. Or, in my personal case, when Captain Gabriel Assaku (a counts-as Captain Tycho), Knights of Blood 3rd Company, borrows elements from the 5th Company to form of a strike force, he tends to prefer shooting units and takes an honor guard of sternguard. Captain Calin Vassago, on the other hand, prefers to get up close and personal with the opponent, bringing terminators and assault squads. When Captain Vassago is indisposed (ie. injured - he's an incautious SOB), the reclusiarch attached to the 5th company takes over and brings his retinue of death company marines.

TL;DR version - you have a lot of flexibility within your geneseed, so don't get too stressed about it. If it's in your codex, you're allowed to use it.

If I shouldn't use flyers, are Hunters or Stalkers an acceptable substitute? If so, which?

I can't help you here. I play Blood Angels. All we've got is a stormraven, and while they are awesome (and also expensive), that gives my lists a different set of concerns and options.

What should I use to kill monstrous creatures? One of the seeming shortcomings of many types of Space Marines, and Salamanders in particular, is that their options for reliably killing things of toughness 6+ is rather limited. I have come up with a few ways I might be able to combat this: Sternguard in drop pods (Maybe combi weapons?) and use hellfire rounds. Rifleman Dreads. Terminators in a Redeemer with cyclone missile launchers.

Same problem as above - I just use death company. Hammernators can do for monstrous creatures as well. I had this one game against 'Nids when my hammernators, accompanied by a blender fist captain (Captain Vassago) and a priest, hammered there way through most of the monsters my opponent brought (most of his infantry, too, come to think of it... ). It was glorious.

[Allen Broussard]

Ive got a great 1850 list for you right here if you wanna test it out.


Vulkan
Command squad: apothecary, 4melta guns, 2 melta bombs, 4 storm shields, standard, pod
5x Tac squad: 10 strong, melta gun, melta bomb and power weapon on vet sarg, pod
3x assault squad: 2x flamer, melta bomb on vet serg, pod



Gives you a potential 15 obj. secured units, 5 drop pods first turn, loads of anti-infantry and pretty good anti-tank.

[Anggul]

Try not to get carried away with the 'not fond of flyers' things. I've seen a lot of people absolutely insist on not using the stuff that their chapter isn't particularly fond of, and it's rather silly. They're Space Marines. They still have that stuff and they still use it. They might not use it if there's another equally valid option, but if it's the best option they'll use it, they aren't stupid (well not completely).

When it comes to flamers remember that they can only kill what's in range, so don't count on them removing an entire squad unless every enemy model is in range. I think it would be worth dropping one in the Command Squad so that one of them can be an Apothecary, feel no pain is nice.

For monstrous creatures you have Devastators using missile launchers or lascannons, Sternguard with combi-grav/hellfire rounds, grav/plasma Bikers, grav Centurions, Stormravens and Stormtalons. Assault Terminators work but are likely to be drowned in massed firepower after killing one MC if you aren't careful with how you deal with other threats.