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  1. #41

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    But what's worse about having said Vortex Grenade than having 7 Vortex missiles to fire off with unlimited range? (Effectively; they can reach anywhere on the board whatever way you look at it).
    Astra Miliwotsit? You're in the Guard now son....

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imperial Fist View Post
    Because the one Imperial Fist specific formation (Titanhammer Squads) gives him one without Strategic Points.
    You don't have to spend anything to acquire it, no, but the Titanhammer Squad entry specifically says he has the Vortex Grenade Strategic Asset.

    The Vortex Grenade Strategic Asset is marked "Strategic Resource." You must spend one Strategic Victory Point to use it, and I don't see anything in the Titanhammer Squad's entry that contradicts this - it just doesn't count towards your allowed total of Straetgic Assets.

  3. #43

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    Unfortantly it does state in the big rule book using rules with other publications but most of the time you can only ever get strategic assets at the start of a 40k apoc game so if your playing a normal game you will not be awarded any strategic assets there for you cant use rules that requre a strategic asset.
    Last edited by Xaric; 08-10-2014 at 11:28 AM.
    Those who judge without reason are no better then the things they judge.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houghten View Post
    You don't have to spend anything to acquire it, no, but the Titanhammer Squad entry specifically says he has the Vortex Grenade Strategic Asset.

    The Vortex Grenade Strategic Asset is marked "Strategic Resource." You must spend one Strategic Victory Point to use it, and I don't see anything in the Titanhammer Squad's entry that contradicts this - it just doesn't count towards your allowed total of Straetgic Assets.
    You took one select sentance from the entire paragraph. In apocalypse yes, you do need a svp to use it, however if you are taking a formation from the book, but not using the rule set of the book, some people could argue you don't need the svp to use it. This is the problem with the rules teams current one liner answer, as although it technically gives an answer - yes you may use apocalypse formations in 40k - it doesn't address any of the issues arising from this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Unfortantly it does state in the big rule book using rules with other publications but most of the time you can only ever get strategic assets at the start of a 40k apoc game so if your playing a normal game you will not be awarded any strategic assets there for you cant use rules that requre a strategic asset.
    Some formations come with assests attached however, this is where the problem with this arises.
    "Give me a hundred Space Marines. Failing that, give me a thousand other troops."

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imperial Fist View Post
    You took one select sentance from the entire paragraph.
    It was the part I was replying to.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Imperial Fist View Post
    if you are taking a formation from the book, but not using the rule set of the book, some people could argue you don't need the svp to use it.
    Whereas I would argue that if you are taking a formation from the book, but not using the rule set of the book, then if any of the formation's rules or wargear depend on the rule set of the book, they have no effect.

    Or perhaps the Lords of the Black Crusade all get to call their Finest Hours in a non-Apocalypse game? Yeaaaaaaaaaah, no.
    Last edited by Houghten; 08-10-2014 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #46

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    Put it this way Unless you can find a rule in the book that clearly states a objection to the rule (with good reason) that no one has provided on here other then wording in a 6th edition book that pre-dates 7th edition book you cant possible demand it false or we could simply start ending every game because someone has a army that you don't collect and you lack the book so they are making up every rule as they go.

    True point here the game is agreed on by both members of the game if you both accept that is how the game is played out you will follow it all the way to how you have agreed on don't proclaim what you play as warhammer 40k as the true game. Want to know what the true game of warhammer 40k I can sum it up with 1 word "enjoyment" if you both are not enjoying the game then its not a game but a burden.

    This is the soul problem when it comes to competitive side of games people want the upper hand and forget they are playing a game of enjoyment but have shifted that enjoyment and they now find that they enjoy the game if they crush the foe not for sake of winning the game but just to rub it in there face. The lowest of players that do this and I have dub this "the rule guilt guy" lets use a example a newer player who has been playing just around the end of 6th edition vs someone who's played since lets say 4th edition because the 4th edition guy has been playing longer will in some cases question the newer player on how he sees the rules making objections and clarifying that the newer guys cant do that or its disallowed even when its not in the book this is why I dubed it "the rule guilt guy" because he will try and guilt the newer guy that he's doing things incorrect and ruining his game in turn makes the newer guy lower his lock on how he sees rules in a bid just to make the other guy happy then the older guy will have a advantage and the newer guy would not be the wiser I know these people exist because there are some in my gaming group.
    Those who judge without reason are no better then the things they judge.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Put it this way Unless you can find a rule in the book that clearly states a objection to the rule (with good reason) that no one has provided on here other then wording in a 6th edition book that pre-dates 7th edition book you cant possible demand it false or we could simply start ending every game because someone has a army that you don't collect and you lack the book so they are making up every rule as they go.

    True point here the game is agreed on by both members of the game if you both accept that is how the game is played out you will follow it all the way to how you have agreed on don't proclaim what you play as warhammer 40k as the true game. Want to know what the true game of warhammer 40k I can sum it up with 1 word "enjoyment" if you both are not enjoying the game then its not a game but a burden.

    This is the soul problem when it comes to competitive side of games people want the upper hand and forget they are playing a game of enjoyment but have shifted that enjoyment and they now find that they enjoy the game if they crush the foe not for sake of winning the game but just to rub it in there face. The lowest of players that do this and I have dub this "the rule guilt guy" lets use a example a newer player who has been playing just around the end of 6th edition vs someone who's played since lets say 4th edition because the 4th edition guy has been playing longer will in some cases question the newer player on how he sees the rules making objections and clarifying that the newer guys cant do that or its disallowed even when its not in the book this is why I dubed it "the rule guilt guy" because he will try and guilt the newer guy that he's doing things incorrect and ruining his game in turn makes the newer guy lower his lock on how he sees rules in a bid just to make the other guy happy then the older guy will have a advantage and the newer guy would not be the wiser I know these people exist because there are some in my gaming group.
    Well put sir. Well put indeed.
    Astra Miliwotsit? You're in the Guard now son....

  8. #48
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    GW has said on numerous occasions that its OK to use formations from the Apoc book in regular games of 40K as long as the basic requirements are met and points allow it. Otherwise, just play the game the way you want. Talk to your fellow gaming buddies in the area. Get their input. See what they think. Come to a majority consensus or agreement about how to approach the topic. Otherwise, just don't worry about it. Trying to justify either position, based on any amount of evidence for or against in the face of already stated allowances for it is just wasteful of time and goes against the current propagation of 'forging the narrative'. Doing things your own way isn't going to make other people, on the internet, want to change.
    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52423-The-Blood-Pact-Chaos-Homebrew-Supplement&p=472214&viewfull=1#post472214

  9. #49
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    Rule blurbs that come with Dataslates even after 7th edition indicate that Apocalypse formations are "not" rules legal in standard play formats, however I honestly do not see the Apocalypse formations concept surviving long as everything 7th edition has been pointing towards an effort to add narrative and fun ways to include as many models as possible in an army list as points permit. Many 6th edition Apocalypse formations have received Standard Formation rulesets, and I expect that trend will continue.

    That said the rules encourage you to use narrative variations of your own if all parties agree there would be nothing wrong with using Apocalypse formations in such an environment. I honestly expect Apocalypse to eventually become more of a narrative game format with rules for Super-Heavy units, with less focus on Apocalypse exclusive formations going forward.

  10. #50

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    At this rate apocalypse in the future will be phased out because the core rule set in the apocalypse book is all that is left that makes the book its own and even about 50% of the rules from that can be found in the 40k 7th edition main rule book but lets be honist its the grim dark far future everything is in a apocalyptic state lol
    Those who judge without reason are no better then the things they judge.

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