Apoc Formations in Regular games: Thoughts?

[Mr Mystery]

Or you can just discuss it with your opponent. Because you know, this is an interactive game, and a social one. It's about more than what just you do or do not want to do.

[Archon Charybdis]

Or you can just discuss it with your opponent. Because you know, this is an interactive game, and a social one. It's about more than what just you do or do not want to do.

Yeah, I honestly don't think most Apocalypse Formations would be that bad, you'd just need to take it on a case by case basis. In that regard it's really no different from saying "Eh, I don't feel like facing your wreck-face Unbound List with 4 Baneblades Jerry."

[The Imperial Fist]

eh, none of those sources are better informed than you or I, and frankly this edition is a cluster frak of stupidity piled upon complex stupidity.

I'd think the rules team are better informed than you...

[The Imperial Fist]

A good way of answering the question will be when WHW update the 40k throne of skulls rules pack on the website, it's down at the moment and the latest warriors code was pre 7th. Alternatively you could email the rules team as someone above did, or email the WHW team on [email][email protected][/email] saying you're going to be a participan in one of their events, and ask for clarification if the formation rule in the book allows you to take formations from the apocalypse book.

Lysander and a vortex grenade sounds good to me. here Knighty knighty.

[Xaric]

I also emailed GW FAQ black library team and they replied the same thing that a formation is a formation guess they are getting this question a lot because it feels like a auto reply so there you have it from the guys them self apoc formations are in for normal 40k games and anyway the formation I intend to use is easily disabled just take out the scout leader and they loose half there special rule so I don't think its broken.

why do people class it as a separate games? do you understand what a expansion is to what a separate game?

If it is so you claim a separate game why do both use the same core rule book and codex army the only different I see is you take additional rules and add them to your current 40k game to expand it for more players and a more lengthy play session or in the case of Huge blasts the same time span as it would take a 2000 points list in a normal game to a apoc game of 20000 points.

[Caitsidhe]

I'm rather of the opinion that a Formation is a Formation as well, but we do need official word in the Faq/Errata. Super Heavies are in... you can take allies with the "comes the apocalypse" limitation. For those of you who haven't guessed yet, the apocalypse is here. Many Formations have benefits which you wouldn't get because they don't apply outside of the Apocalypse approach, but that is irrelevant. The key thing is many Formations from Apocalypse exist to help deal with Super Heavies, so keeping the Formations out while allowing the Super Heavies in would be silly.

[Xaric]

I'm rather of the opinion that a Formation is a Formation as well, but we do need official word in the Faq/Errata. Super Heavies are in... you can take allies with the "comes the apocalypse" limitation. For those of you who haven't guessed yet, the apocalypse is here. Many Formations have benefits which you wouldn't get because they don't apply outside of the Apocalypse approach, but that is irrelevant. The key thing is many Formations from Apocalypse exist to help deal with Super Heavies, so keeping the Formations out while allowing the Super Heavies in would be silly.

here have a cookie finaly someone gets the point

[Houghten]

Lysander and a vortex grenade sounds good to me. here Knighty knighty.

Don't you have to spend a Strategic Victory Point to use the Vortex Grenade? How's he going to throw it in a mission that doesn't use Strategic Victory Points?

[Anggul]

I've wanted them in since the original Apocalypse in 4th edition. It was always silly that you could take the correct number of the correct units in a standard FOC, yet they could only do the things clearly possible in their fluff if you were playing Apocalypse.

Dark Olympiad for example is a great way of making a full Wych Cult army more viable. A Vindicator Linebreaker Squadron or a Predator Assassin Squadron are both possible to make in a standard FOC but for some reason can't combine their fire for a situational ability unless you're in Apocalypse. There are many other examples too. Apocalypse formations usually just give you a bonus fluffy rule or two for taking a few of something that have to remain close to each other, or in the case of the Dark Olympiad make an otherwise borderline army much more decent.

I say let them in. A lot of the more over-the-top ones are too expensive for your usual 40k game anyway, it's only the more passive ones that will usually be used and they aren't broken in a 40k game, just cool, fluffy and useful in the same way as any formations. I'll certainly be letting my opponents use them, for example a couple of people in my gaming club who like to use full Wych cult armies.

[The Imperial Fist]

Don't you have to spend a Strategic Victory Point to use the Vortex Grenade? How's he going to throw it in a mission that doesn't use Strategic Victory Points?

Because the one Imperial Fist specific formation (Titanhammer Squads) gives him one without Strategic Points. This is where people are getting worried/upset about these formations i think, as you're taking the formation, but not the expansion rules. So suddenly Lysander has a vortex grenade, but as you're not using the ruleset, there's not actually anything that stops him lobbing it at the superheavy or monstrous creature he can deepstrike on without scattering.