7th what to think and what to play?

[chicop76]

I'm still reading 7th and finding out it's not 6th with a few rules, but a major rewrite for 6th. Which means same concept, but with a lot of new rules and concepts.

Anyway not going into the book too much a major part of the book is the extra phase, which is the psychic phase. Looking through and doing play testing I have found out a few things.

1. Surprisingly you're casting less than before. However you have a higher chance of success. However if both armies have a good number of psychics and terrain or items that give adamatium will it could be hard to cast.

A. For example if you have a master 4 psyker in a ruins that provide adamatium will you will deny on a 3+ if the other side is carrying around a master 3 or lower. This basically causes you to load up on psykers since having only a handful could be easily countered. Which means to really counter a psyker army you need a decent amount of them. Also it means you will probably drop the highest level psyker on the table you can field.

2. Besides summoning daemons all game long, it is weaker than before. Yes it is technically easier to cast powers, but at the same time it is harder to cast as many as before.

a. What I mean is that before you had for example a master 3 psyker with leadership 10. which meant you had a really good chance of getting 3 level 1 powers off. Now you look at 7th you have a random dice pluse 3 warp charges which gives you six charges to go off. you have a 50% chance of the power going off which is far lower than before, well a little bit lower. you have a higher chance of sucees rolling 2 dice trying not to get above 11 than rolling two dice with both dice have a 50% chance of getting the power to go off. if the other side have no psykers, adamadium will, or a higher level psyker, or runic charm than you're ok. basically against Tau you're going to dominate and against space wolves who can cancel on a 2+ you will have problems, may have to re look since the charm gives plus one as well.

3. the extra phase encourages extra psykers, but at the same time taking too many can actually hurt your army. What i mean by this if you play guard, or vanallia space marines for example trying to squeeze in to many psykers will actually hurt your army build over all. while at the same time armies like greyknights, daemons, and eldar for example will laugh away since they can field a lot of psykers and it actually helps the army instead of hurting. like psychic vehicles and flying circus. Going back to how many is enough, what do a guard player do? do he/she take 3 psykers and when they play against a psychic heavy army their psykers just get nullified and the other side cast most of their powers off.

long story short unless you're running a heavy psychic army to begin with the new rules actually hurt you more than help you. Sure it's helpful against Tau, but it raises Eldar, Daemons, and Grey Knights to a new level of play.

Another concern i have is making unbound or battle forged. In my mind unbound have too many draw backs to actually be really playable. Unless you can just blow units off objectives, etc. just don't see it actually being helpful. what i am worried about here though is the flood of forge world models that can possibly hit the field. anyway I am prepared to take a ton of meltas now since i have the feeling i may have to deal with a lot of Armour.

Looking at Battle forge is just as tricky since you have no limit on how many battle forge detachments you can have. it's pretty scary the different detachments that can easily pop up. also i see this as a marketing thing since you can by data slots and use for said detachments. My problem is i don't have to make a traditional army list anymore. I can get in for example 4 marine captains and 6 bikes for a marine army list. the possibilities is really good. however I see battle forded really helping out the hum armies more than anything else. I for one will be doing sisters, guard, and grey knights.

i hear a lot of restricting on the list. which is why i am reading and may actually quit playing 40k. the problem i see if the rules say i can do a list with 4 human factions, but in a tournament i am restricted to playing 2 factions, what's the point. the problem here is the restrictions become really aggrivating if you go shop to shop. not saying i don't see potential abuse. i just saying i would like to play my list i use to play in 3rd/4th.

[Erik Setzer]

RE: 1A. You'll only deny on 3+ powers that were targeted at the unit the psyker is in. If they cast on some other unit (or cast blessings), you're still needing to roll a number of 6+ equal to the number of successes your opponent had.

Psychic powers aren't as easy to get off, but they can still be game-changers. In a 1500 point match, a lone ML2 Weirdboy was responsible for eventually adding 880 points worth of Daemons to my army (summoned units of Horrors, who then also were able to summon Heralds, and in one case a Greater Daemon). In another game, a guy used Biomancy with two Space Wolf Grey Hunter Packs (who also had Ministorum Priests assigned to them) to get rerollable 3+ armor (and invulnerable where applicable), 4+ Feel No Pain, Eternal Warrior, and Relentless (as well as reroll to hit in the first round of combat). It made it obnoxiously hard to kill any of those guys.

As for Battle-Forged, well... Unbound doesn't really take penalties. "Battle-Forged" means that you take a specific type of detachment, and Troops units from *that* detachment get Objective Secured and your Warlord, if from *that* detachment, can reroll his Trait. You can't toss on a formation full of Troops choices and expect them to also be Objective Secured. You can stack detachments, though.

The restrictions are likely to be necessary for competitive play, unfortunately. I've already seen some ridiculous combinations from them, and Imperials are the worst. While you might want to be free to play what you want, it's a fair point that there are some things that can straight up break the game. In regular matches, you can't just show up with whatever you want anyway. The rulebook actually very specifically states now that you have to agree to restrictions with your opponent and all. I might want to use my Knight as often as possible (given what I paid for it and the work I put into modeling it), but I still have to ask my opponent if he's cool with that or not. If he's not, I just go with a different list.