Smash & Daemon Weapons

[Caitsidhe]

I've heard a couple of people comment on this issue, and I even played against a guy who insisted that my Black Mace Prince got his bonus Daemon Weapon attacks on top of my single Smash attack. What is the prevailing read on this? I took the harshest view that to Smash you gave up all your other attacks.

[Wildcard]

IIRC the wording is that you "make a single smash attack" (emphasis mine), with no bonuses and modifiers to attacks mentioned

[Caitsidhe]

IIRC the wording is that you "make a single smash attack" (emphasis mine), with no bonuses and modifiers to attacks mentioned

That is how I read it too, which is why I was confused by those indicating otherwise.

[Demonus]

Yep it says Single attack.

[DarkLink]

Last edition it was faqd that the bonus attacks were applied after halving your attacks. Now, you just straight up make a single attack, so no, no daemon weapon.

[Caitsidhe]

Last edition it was faqd that the bonus attacks were applied after halving your attacks. Now, you just straight up make a single attack, so no, no daemon weapon.

Agreed. The change in the rules is one of the reasons Be'Lakor is now an auto-include for me. His STR-7 (due to weapon) w/Armourbane.

[Chaoschrist]

Aren't modifiers added at the end? As someone pointed out, but it was in the previous edition, said attacks were added AFTER halving attacks. Similarly, Orks charging with a powerclaw/Big choppa. Double strength/+2 Strenght and then add + 1 for Furious charge.

Can't find anywhere in the book where it states exactly how it works though, but I thought I'd bring up the Orks thing as well, since that's somewhat similar in changing a base stat through wargear AND adding something through rules.

If Daemon weapons are nerfed with smash, I do indeed see how Be'Lakor is way, way more appealing to play (not that he isn't already).

[DarkLink]

Set values are a modifier as well. Last edition set modifiers were always applied last (normally, anyways, but GW sometimes ruled the other way for kicks), and I don't think that changed, though I haven't checked yet. So you can add and subtract attacks all you want, but you're still going to drop to one attack.

[Caitsidhe]

Aren't modifiers added at the end? As someone pointed out, but it was in the previous edition, said attacks were added AFTER halving attacks. Similarly, Orks charging with a powerclaw/Big choppa. Double strength/+2 Strenght and then add + 1 for Furious charge.

Can't find anywhere in the book where it states exactly how it works though, but I thought I'd bring up the Orks thing as well, since that's somewhat similar in changing a base stat through wargear AND adding something through rules.

If Daemon weapons are nerfed with smash, I do indeed see how Be'Lakor is way, way more appealing to play (not that he isn't already).

Yep, he is the will and the way as far as I'm concerned. I am regularly seeing at least one superheavy on the board, whether it is a Knight(s) or Baneblade. While living La'Vida Melta helps me more than most, that is usually not enough to stop the initial damage such units can do. For me, as a smaller, elite army, I generally don't fare well if I allow them the alpha strike. Hence, I prefer to sic' Be'lakor on it and watch him turn it into rubble in short order.

He makes (6) attacks on the charge which are STR-7, AP-2, & Armourbane. Average dice gives him a 14+ which is penetrating on a Knight. In general, if at all possible I cast invisibility on him (I'll throw enough dice and don't care if I Perils) in case it takes more than one round to trash the superheavy. Naturally, during the shooting phase I will have blasted the thing to take a point or two off of it. About 50% of the time Be'lakor with fire support takes it out the 1st Turn, and so far 100% of the time he has taken it out by the 2nd Turn if not the 1st. Without fire support he will most certainly take 2-3 Turns to take it out. Sadly, Be'lakor is my only "reliable" option against Knights currently, and by reliable I mean a way to take them out that doesn't cost me as much or more than it does my opponent. In fairness, Be'lakor costs as much as a Knight.

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, Belakor rules! And so much more now that it's waaaay tougher to Ground him. With Invisibility and good terrain, it might be feasible to just jump him along and into combat, but not necessarily.

I will have to agree with this assessment of the Smash rule now. The wording is very specific and for once very clear.