Mawloc and Deep Strike

[HsojVvad]

i think it would depend on where this rule was located.

Now I think you are debating for the sake of debating. . Seriously I think he made a really valid point there.

What is the big deal anyways? Chances are if you wanted to DS onto an inpassible terrian you will scatter anyways, so wouldn't it better to just pick a place hoping you will scatter onto a mini instead?

Also just think of it this way, that if the Mawloc dosn't DS onto a unit, the unit or person, got out of the way once he felt the ground started to rumble, shake and move.

But after reading the rules, I don't see anything where DS allows to bypass the main rules. Next thing we will be saying is we will be able to Flank on top of models when we flank now. Since the rules said we have to go on what ever side we roll on or get to choose, and it dosn't say we can't go into impassible terrian as well. What about other units coming from reserve? It dosn't say they can't be placed into impassible terrian, just says that it has to come from the players edge. So you telling me that these mini's can come from impassible terrian on the players edge when coming from reserve or when outflanking as well?

[Fizyx]

But after reading the rules, I don't see anything where DS allows to bypass the main rules. Next thing we will be saying is we will be able to Flank on top of models when we flank now. Since the rules said we have to go on what ever side we roll on or get to choose, and it dosn't say we can't go into impassible terrian as well. What about other units coming from reserve? It dosn't say they can't be placed into impassible terrian, just says that it has to come from the players edge. So you telling me that these mini's can come from impassible terrian on the players edge when coming from reserve or when outflanking as well?

Sorry for this farcical approach, but I hope we can all understand the ridiculousness of the last 80-some-odd posts in this thread.

I really don't think many people are actually taking this debate too seriously. Rather, we're just being nit-picky because we are waiting for some filler compound to set. Well, at least one person is.

[Pil]

Codex says "If the Mawloc deep strikes onto a point occupied by another model," not "If the Mawloc scatters onto a point occupied by another model,". Also the way he works if he can't DS into the middle of a unit then he is 10 times more useless then he already is. So the intent is clear if you choose to be a jerk about it till the faq comes out, and GW clearly stats it (And you know they will) then you will just make people mad at you for no reason. Is winning at pushing little army men around so important to you that you would rather bend and twist wordings to a unreasonable point that no one even wants you in the shop playing anymore? Try to use common sense about things like this that are glaringly obvious in how they are suppose to work.

Also the codex is very clear in stating that the Mawloc is placed last. He DS into a unit you place large blast template, not the Mawloc, resolve all casualties. Then move all surviving units the minimum distance to clear the large blast template, THEN place Mr. Mawloc. It is suppose to represent him bursting from underneath the ground so you would get hit by the rubble that is str 6 ap 2 first, and blown out of the way knocked around what have you. So then the hole he emerged from is clear of everything for him to pop up. He doesn't fall from the sky. I mean seriously you nay sayers think he falls from the sky? Or that he emerges first then the ground blows opens for his hole he burrowed through?

[webron]

But after reading the rules, I don't see anything where DS allows to bypass the main rules. Next thing we will be saying is we will be able to Flank on top of models when we flank now. Since the rules said we have to go on what ever side we roll on or get to choose, and it dosn't say we can't go into impassible terrian as well. What about other units coming from reserve? It dosn't say they can't be placed into impassible terrian, just says that it has to come from the players edge. So you telling me that these mini's can come from impassible terrian on the players edge when coming from reserve or when outflanking as well?

The problem with this argument is that outflanks, as well as all reserves not deep striking enter the board using the movement rules. The deep strike rule is separate from the normal movement rules. I think the purpose of this model and its rule are very clear. People are just trying to find a reason to say why it can't work like it is supposed to. Up until this point, the only reason a person would try to DS onto impassable terrain is if they had a monolith, which to me seems to work in the same way as the mawloc. I realize the crons are an older codex, so who knows how the rules will be re-written (hopefully soon for all you cron players). But if a cron player wanted to DS a monolith in the middle of my IG army, I would have no problem with that. At least under the rules, I know from experience what a big problem that causes for the guard.

[HsojVvad]

Damn, I thought I had an answer to this when I woke up. Now that I showered and looked at the rules, I am wrong. I was going to say what if you mishap and then your opponent has to place you. Can he put you in impassible terrian, and it states that he can't, and without scatter. So maybe because scatter was mentioned in that specific rule, can we say that since it wasn't mentioned with the Mawloc rule that it really means you can do it then? Something more to nitpic on eh?

Also, even if GW puts out an FAQ, the FAQ means diddly squat since it changes nothing. Now if GW errata's it, then you have to fallow it. (then again GW says to change any rules you want lol ) but since FAQ are not official by GW statement it has to be errated to really mean anything. Yes I know 99% of the people say GW FAQ's are official but there is always that 1% who will argue it till the cows come home.

Now I am on the fence either way. By RAI I say th eMawloc should be able to DS on Impassible terrian (enemy model) but by RAW can't really say since if we go by RAW and if it was in a court of law, then we can't say page 13 over rides page 95 or page 95 overrieds page 13. So we just roll it for now if the 2 parties can't come to an understanding, and accept what ever is in the Errata or FAQ when ever it arrives.

[BuFFo]

Codex says "If the Mawloc deep strikes onto a point occupied by another model," not "If the Mawloc scatters onto a point occupied by another model,".

Deep Strike IS the scatter result.

Thats when you enter the table.

[j78]

who knows, at least it gave me something to do at work yesterday.

after reading the mawloc rule again, i see that is says "the spot the mawloc is emerging from". to ensure i'm strictly following RAW, i will make sure to bring some sort of power tool to dig a hole through the board and allow my mawloc to sufficiently emerge.

but seriously, even though i don't agree with the other reading of the rule, i can appreciate that people are convinced they're right, just like i'm convinced i'm right. hopefully it doesn't cause too many problems on the table and GW gets out something to address the issue fast. i've been really impressed with the speed of answers lately, maybe it's a trend that will continue to get better.

more of a moral victory, i actually managed to fit the stupid giant bug in my army case. now that is an accomplishment.

[Pil]

Deep Strike IS the scatter result.

Thats when you enter the table.

Uh no it isn't or they wouldn't specifically say "If the Trygon scatters onto impassable terrain or another unit"
Read the codex on the two of them so you can see where I am coming from they are very specific about DS onto, and scatter onto.

[BuFFo]

Uh no it isn't or they wouldn't specifically say "If the Trygon scatters onto impassable terrain or another unit"
Read the codex on the two of them so you can see where I am coming from they are very specific about DS onto, and scatter onto.

Yes it is.

If you read the first sentence of the second paragrpah under the Mawlocs Terror from the Deep, the rule is quite blunt about what 'Deep Strike' means.

You can only know the result of the second paragraph after you have found the final position of the Mawloc, and how do we know when to do it? The first paragraph tells us. Since you won't know the final position of Deep Strike until after the scatter, the part about 'if a Mawloc Deep Strikes onto a point....' can ONLY mean the final position.

It is impossible to do the second part of the rule if you think the first part is the initial marker positioning.

[Pil]

Yea it says to place a large blast template where he is emerging from. Not place the Mawloc. Honestly people that are fighting this are just grasping at straws for no good reason that I can think of. I find it hard to believe people are this scared of a large blast template shot that has 0 BS. Not only that, but it can only be used every other round. The wording is clear it can DS onto a unit. I have yet to meet anyone IRL that argues this, only see these comments on the interwebs. The other funny thing is no one is going to be fielding a 170 point blast weapon with 0 BS that only goes off every other round. If you deploy your Mawlocs and the game ends at the end of round 5 you get 2 shots wow 2 shots for 170 points each. To top them off they are craptacular in CC. Trygons will own the battlefield they are a great unit with great rules, and model. GW did good with the Trygon.