Mawloc and Deep Strike

[Bean]

There's no marker, Buffo, just a model that gets placed. Since models can't be placed in impassable terrain, the deepstriking model can't be placed in impassable terrain, either.

Basically, your argument boils down to the assertion that all rules exist in a complete vacuum and never interact with other rules at all. This is so obviously wrong and absurd that I won't even bother to point out the near-countless examples of rules-combinations upon which the game relies.

[Lerra]

For what it's worth, I've always seen it played that the model is used like a deep strike marker - the model isn't on the table until the whole unit arrives. It's simply representing a point in space where the unit will enter play.

Necron Monoliths are sort of like Mawlocs - both can enter play via deep strike and any enemy models in the deep strike area simply move out of the way. It's usually played that Monoliths may deep strike on top of enemy models.

edit: Consider the deep strike rules on p. 95 "If a scatter occurs, roll 2d6 to see how many inches the model moves away from the intended position."

IF you are considering the original model to be on the table following normal movement and placement rules, then it moves 2d6 inches when scattering via those movement and placement rules. That would mean that it cannot move into impassible terrain or within 1" of an enemy unit, which means that the deep striking unit cannot scatter into impassible terrain.

This is clearly not how the deep strike rules are played in the real world. People treat the center model in a deep strike like a marker, not like a model on the table.

[Mycroft Holmes]

I'm really enjoying how people are using 'markers' or perfect points (zero radius) for their DS and ignoring that the DeepStrike rules are specific:

Pg 95; second paragraph. "First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive, and roll the scatter dice"

Nothing says you can't be within 1" or any thing like that, but you have to be able to put the model down. if you can your model down on the table in the center of an enemy unit; that's cool. You get to hope that it scatters just off the unit, but you still must be able to put the first model down.

None of the arguments I've heard suggest that to DS the Mawloc you don't have to "First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table,..." Yes, it has specific rules for what happens instead of rolling on the mishap table, but that's the end result of a DS; you still have to place the model on the table.

Mycroft

PS. Physically dropping a Mawloc/Monolith on your opponent's models and arguing that it's "on the table," or that holding it slighting above is just as good, are not valid arguments.

[Shavnir]

edit: Consider the deep strike rules on p. 95 "If a scatter occurs, roll 2d6 to see how many inches the model moves away from the intended position."

IF you are considering the original model to be on the table following normal movement and placement rules, then it moves 2d6 inches when scattering via those movement and placement rules. That would mean that it cannot move into impassible terrain or within 1" of an enemy unit, which means that the deep striking unit cannot scatter into impassible terrain.

You bring up an interesting point. It may only be possible to mishap by starting within an inch of an enemy model and hitting on the scatter die. Man RAW is stupid.

[Bean]

As Shav says, you do appear to be correct, in that it looks like mishaps will almost never actually occur legally.

Unfortunately for the Mawlock, this means its ability will never work.

[gcsmith]

It deppends on RAI rather than RAW, everyone i know would take it as u could designate that area. Afterall its not wats written but wats intended that matters, since in the white dwarf they aimed it at the squad u could take it to mean u can.

[Lerra]

This is one of those cases where game-as-played trumps RAW. While I would love for deep strikers to be nearly immune to mishap (I play Deathwing and Chaos Daemons), I doubt I would ever have a tournament judge rule in my favor, regardless of RAW.

[Bean]

That's probably true, Lerra. Still, the fact that virtually everyone has been making the same mistake for as long as anyone can remember doesn't mean that it isn't a mistake. The Earth isn't flat, after all.

[Mycroft Holmes]

That's probably true, Lerra. Still, the fact that virtually everyone has been making the same mistake for as long as anyone can remember doesn't mean that it isn't a mistake. The Earth isn't flat, after all.

Except that the DeepStrike rules never mention ANY restrictions on where you place the first model (only that you be able to place it,) and the DeepStrike rules give explicit direction on what happens if you roll a scatter (why would you be looking at movement rules?)

There is no reason to look at "movement and placement rules" when discussing DeepStrike.

[david5th]

1) When you Deep Strike, you follow the rules for Deep Strike and nothing else.

2) Codex rules supersede basic rules.

My post on the first page is how you do it. Take it or leave it.

The rule is called " Terror from the Deep " for a reason. It erupts form the ground and kills the enemy, not die for some weird reason. As new rules are revised and release they will supersede other entries, if not the game would not evolve.