Are the Eldar actually good guys?

[Archon Charybdis]

Not that anyone is technically wrong in this thread, but I feel the need to come to the defense of my poor maligned Eldar. In the festering crap-sack galaxy of Warhammer 40K, where other factions are not only xenophobic fascists who commit atrocities against their enemies, but will indiscriminately murder their own kind in unconscionable acts of wholesale slaughter, the Eldar at least treat their own kind reasonably well (Dark Eldar excepted). Compared to the inhumanity of humanity, wantonly murdering their own kind, you could say Eldar are morally superior in that regard. Of course, the whole point is though that every faction commits evil to some extent and that everything is on a scale from black to shades of grey at best.

[YorkNecromancer]

They all are like different factions in a walking dead episode. They try to survive at all costs. Sometimes this means to work together with another party of survivors and sometimes that means "raid them and take their equipment and food".

Like I said, the CIA would never work with the Taleban... except when it does.

Anyone will work with anyone given proper incentive. Doesn't make them friends, friendly, ideologically aligned... Just pragmatists. The Eldar don't have the numbers to afford principles.

Let alone the fact that a Craftworlder looking down on a citizen of Commoragh as "evil" is pure delusion at best, rank hypocrisy at worst.

the Eldar at least treat their own kind reasonably well (Dark Eldar excepted). Compared to the inhumanity of humanity, wantonly murdering their own kind, you could say Eldar are morally superior in that regard.

Question: would this statement still be true if the Eldar had the population levels that humanity currently does? Because humanity views itself as superior in (just like the Eldar), views itself as the most scientifically advanced and spiritually pure species (just like the Eldar)... the only difference to me seems to be population levels. A case could be made that the Eldar are simply what humanity will finally turn into when the Imperium finally collapses and is forced to use tactics besides Send In The Next Wave.

Are they actually morally superior, or simply slaves to a different necessity than humanity's?

[Darren Richardson]

Eldar are essentially entirely self interested gits.

Seriously, consider what is actually more evil? A slave raid by Dark Eldar, or Craftworld Eldar mucking about with fate to ensure the rise of Ghazghkull? You know, the Ork that has rampaged around the Imperium.

Both are/were done to ensure Eldar survival. Frankly, I find Dark Eldar the lesser of the two evils, simply because their actions are honest.

I agree with Mr Mystery, to me the Eldar are very self centred, while their Dark cousins are honest about their motives....

As for "Good Guys" in 40k, honestly I consider them all to be evil to varying degrees....

The Imperium = Hard Line Religious Dictorship.
Chaos = Self Serving Power Hungry Deprevation.
Eldar = Self Centred Self Preservionists.
Dark Eldar = Depraved Self Obessed Hedionists.
Tau = Nieve Communist Agenda.
Orks = Might Makes Right Self Interested
Necrons = Genocidal self Preservitists.

In Fact, I think the only real honest faction is the Nids = Evolounists pure and simple.

[John Bower]

Actually I think you'll find the Eldar committing murder among other things but in depraved ways was largely responsible for the creation of Slannesh. It was a mix of excess of all sorts, torture; depraved sexual excess; BDSM, etc. So Eldar good? Not a chance, they are just the same nasty little snotrags everyone else is. That's the one think I don't like about the fluff, at least IRL there are 'nice' people from all sides of any war. But in 40k if a guardsman and a Howling Banshee found themselves alone and cut off on a world they wouldn't help each other, the Banshee would kill the guardsman who (let's face it) wouldn't stand an snowflake's chance in hell of stopping her, then die because she would have nobody to help her.

In reality both would see the merit of helping each other until they were rescued or not as the case may be.
I think my point is that as the fluff is written nobody really seems to have a mind to think for themselves; they're all stupid as it gets. Drones; "Duh; master say I got to kill you; so I kill you."

As pointed out, the only ones who aren't 'evil' are the Nids, who are like locusts more than anything; and the Orks who fight for the sake of it.

[YorkNecromancer]

if a guardsman and a Howling Banshee found themselves alone and cut off on a world they wouldn't help each other, the Banshee would kill the guardsman who (let's face it) wouldn't stand an snowflake's chance in hell of stopping her, then die because she would have nobody to help her.

I get the feeling she'd lie to him about being friendly in order to use him to build shelter and survive as far as possible, snuggle next to him if it was cold to use his body heat to survive, then kill him and eat him once she needed to, or kill him and forget about him once her people finally came to pick her up.

Assuming she wasn't forced to kill him because he'd read his Uplifting Primer and believed it when it said that he could take an Eldar in CQC using a small K-bar in his faith in the Emperor.

Either way, I would watch the **** out of that film.

[daboarder]

Eh I could see the eldar killing the guardsmen with the belief that she is superior enough not to need him

[Charon]

Eh I could see the eldar killing the guardsmen with the belief that she is superior enough not to need him

Nah... as we have seen a Greyknight working together with a Mandrake to escape a daemonworld (breaking his promise and killing the Mandrake and all other prisoners after they made it to safety) im quite sure that an Eldar can work together with a human if necessary. On the other hand... its an aspect warrior and they can be quite single minded (the whole point of the paths) when they donned their warmasks.

[Da Gargoyle]

What makes you mere mortals think you can judge the Eldar in right & wrong or good and bad. Your pathetically short lives give you no capacity to understand or comprehend our universe. Anything we do is for the good of the Eldar. This is by definition for the good of the universe because the universe will be a lessor place without us. So though you may think you can judge us, your idea of good is ephemerial and inconsequential to the true worth of our being and benefit to the universe.

'nuff said

[Anggul]

What makes you mere mortals think you can judge the Eldar in right & wrong or good and bad. Your pathetically short lives give you no capacity to understand or comprehend our universe. Anything we do is for the good of the Eldar. This is by definition for the good of the universe because the universe will be a lessor place without us. So though you may think you can judge us, your idea of good is ephemerial and inconsequential to the true worth of our being and benefit to the universe.

'nuff said

Actually pretty much it yeah.

[Wolfshade]

To define things like good and bad implies a universal morality code. Which in this case simply isn't true.

Consider the Orks, for orks fighting is good, therefore any action which brings them into conflict is good. Indeed, the fighting is often more important that the winning, they are the ultimate case of "its the taking part that counts". Certainly, yes they see winning at fighting is better and is the base formation of there civilisation's heirachy (as much as one can state it).

For the Tau, however, this would a complete anathma, yes, they do fight, but only as a last resort and if it enhances the "greater good".

So are the eldar good?

Well, it depends on what your morality is.

In 40k, the closes we have of a moral code is the treatment of Chaos, either pro or anti and even then you have the orks and tyranids who have no position on it whatsoever. (Historically, you did have Chaos Orks and Chaos Genestealer Cults but these appear to have been retconned)

So if we consider that the opposition of Chaos is good, then the eldar is very much "good" in that sense. Like nearly every other race, tau possibly being the exception, they view every other race as inferior and a means to an end. So it is perfectly possible that sacrificing an entire imperial world is just as the same as sacrificing ammo.

But it is slightly more than that which dominates the Eldar, yes the war against Chaos is very very important to them, but so too is their own survival, and protection of their lands be it craftworld or maiden world.

The other distiniction is perhaps is the scope that the eldar look at.

Consider how they act through Grammaticus during the Heresey. They want Horus to be victorious, which in the short term seems to play into the hands of Chaos and against their own goals, but they know if Horus does win the war, then he will realise his mistake and purge the galaxy and ultimately destroy the dark gods, oh and humanity, but ho-hum there is a price to pay.

To the eldar I would say they are very much consequentialists, then ends always justifies the means.

They are "good" in the sense that you can communicate with them and ally with them short term if you have mutual goals, but if that conflicts with their own goals then treachery and betrayal will follow. So forinstance, if there is an imperial colony on a maiden world, the eldar might help the imperium defend it against chaos/nids but once the threat has been removed, if they are in a position of strength would not think twice about removing the human taint from their world.