Codex Orks - Informed discussion.

[Uberbeast]

People like Uberbeast just annoy me. People who expect their new book to be at the top of the pile when it's released fail to realise one crucial thing. If GW was to do that, and they were fair to everyones books, you'd just be *****ing that some new book is OP because your book can't keep up. Rather than be willing to adapt their playstyle and lists, and apply the sort of thinking that this game requires to get the most out of it, they sit there and throw a hissy and expect the world to cater to their demands instead. Sorry kids, never going to happen.

Bottom line, people like that don't want a balanced game, they just want the imbalance to be in their favor.

Actually it's attitudes like this one that I find most despicable. You say you're annoyed with people who only want to win and expect their book to automatically trump everyone else's. What you don't admit is that the ork book has been languishing for years and each consecutive edition of the game has had an every increasing negative impact on this out of date codex.

The truth is people like you rush out and try to grab whatever the current "best" codex is, they spend endless hours netlisting and trying to come up with the most over-powered cheese build they can think of and then commit their time and resources into that build so they can steamroll everything in sight. They cannot understand any reason for wanting a new list to be better than crap beyond their own view of powergaming, and they hate when GW overpowers a new book because it threatens the previously established meta that they are already concentrating on.

It's the height of hypocrisy when these power-gaming clowns then decide that it's unfair for someone who has been laboring for years with an outdated edition-nerfed codex to want it improved on, as all they have been sitting there helplessly watching their army get worse and worse edition after edition. When instead the new book comes out and it's a huge mess, people like Blythicus rush out and attack the unhappy ork fans, "how dare they want to threaten the powerbuilds like eldar and tau!" All an ork's good for is providing a bumbling npc character to blast off the tabletop so these fragile ego power-gaming hypocrites can feel good about themselves.

It's just discusting to me that anyone would be so pathetic and unfair as to attack an unhappy ork player for not liking what is his lot in life: to wait through another 7 years being cut to pieces by the same power-gaming net-bullies who ridicule them for their just anger at GW for easily one of the most poorly written books they have ever produced.

[Caitsidhe]

My own personal view is that forums exist for people to discuss, debate, whine, go on tangents, stand on soap boxes, and/or generally vent their spleens. It is a given. Anyone who whines about whiners is being, for lack of a better word, foolish. The most common definition in the common vernacular for a forum is: "a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Thus it is a near certainty that people will disagree. Why whine about whiners when 1) defining a whine is entirely subjective, and 2) forums exist to service exactly that kind of thing?

Don't get me wrong. I think people who whine about whiners are just entitled to vent their spleen (see definition above), I just think they are being hypocritical and extending themselves into less and less tangible subjects. I am always tempted to immediately post about he most abusive list I can think of so I can say to both types, "would you like a little cheese with that whine?" Before I go too much further on my tangent, I will pragmatically point out that a new book just came out. It is only natural that a wide variety of positions would emerge. Let them have their say. Given this is Games Workshop and the new Codex is always purposely designed to screw people out of using models that were good in the previous, it is to be expected that there were going to be some very unhappy campers.

The new codex wants you to field a lot of footsloggers. The new Force Org is designed to encourage that. The change to vehicles is a punitive measure to make sure you spend your points on bodies rather than rides you already own. It doesn't take a genius to see what they intend for you to do. I think it is very unfortunate for Ork players. I think it will be unfortunate for me too because for at least the next six months I will have to play against armies of Orks as people try to give them a go. This means LONG tedious games wherein the "Fungus Mungus" makes it return. It takes a long time to setup. It takes a long time for them to move. I takes forever to resolve every combat. In general, it takes forever to reach the same outcome every time.

[Wolfshade]

Perhaps my previous nudge was a little too subtle.

Keep this on topic.

Hint: The topic is the Ork Codex

[Caitsidhe]

Perhaps my previous nudge was a little too subtle.

Keep this on topic.

Hint: The topic is the Ork Codex

My apologies. I thought I had linked my comments to it enough, but I will do so more directly. If you are an Ork player, put your Trukks on the shelf. Statistically they will do more damage to you than provide any benefit. This isn't a complaint, just a truism. The Def'Roller is still functional, but do not rely on Transports in general.

[Path Walker]

Who are all these supposed Ork players who weren't using multiple huge mobs of boyz??!

[Caitsidhe]

Who are all these supposed Ork players who weren't using multiple huge mobs of boyz??!

None of the Ork players in my area relied upon the Fungus Mungus. Key units in Trukks and Nob Bikers have been the "go to" armies in the State of Texas for some time. From what I read on the internet and battle reports, it wasn't isolated to Texas. In other words, people naturally gravitated toward quality over quantity. Huge mob Ork armies have been losers for some time, and they are logistically a pain since they double the duration of pick up games, and simply make finishing a round in a tournament impossible.

[Charon]

None of the Ork players in my area relied upon the Fungus Mungus. Key units in Trukks and Nob Bikers have been the "go to" armies in the State of Texas for some time. From what I read on the internet and battle reports, it wasn't isolated to Texas. In other words, people naturally gravitated toward quality over quantity. Huge mob Ork armies have been losers for some time, and they are logistically a pain since they double the duration of pick up games, and simply make finishing a round in a tournament impossible.

This sums it up pretty much. Dispite the "educated" opinion of 2 forum members, 120 - 160 orcs CAN be gunned down before they do any measurable damage AND tripple game length.

[Path Walker]

Tournaments don't count.

[Wolfshade]

Tournaments do count, they are just another way that the game is played.

When I play with my orks I tend to barrel them up in trukks with a nob and head them straight forwards. And bikerz and storm boyz (though that is more that I love the model than it is effective). I've not played them with the new dex yet so I shall wait and see how effective this is.

[Uberbeast]

None of the Ork players in my area relied upon the Fungus Mungus. Key units in Trukks and Nob Bikers have been the "go to" armies in the State of Texas for some time. From what I read on the internet and battle reports, it wasn't isolated to Texas. In other words, people naturally gravitated toward quality over quantity. Huge mob Ork armies have been losers for some time, and they are logistically a pain since they double the duration of pick up games, and simply make finishing a round in a tournament impossible.

This in a nut-shell. I was pretty much forced away from horde blobbing during 5th edition's parking lot leafblower days. 6th edition's nerfs to cc, boost to shooting, and removing casualties from front pretty much saw me playing fewer games overall. 7th edition wasn't looking any better, but I was really excited for the new book. My collection is vast enough that I can run any build or formation the book has to offer. Unfortunately, I don't see anything but the wildest unbound allies lists working thanks to mob rule.