Daboarder's Chaos Terminator List Tactics

[daboarder]

Sorry, this one kinda got away form me and took me a lot longer to write than I had intended, its damn near as long as the Terminator entry, and I'm STILL not entirely sure I covered everything so I might be adding stuff after this is up.



Lords:
So let's cover lords, In this instance I am specifically discussing lords in terminator armour, I will include a breakdown of each of the relics that they can equip, excluding items that terminator lords cannot access (we'll cover daemon heart later
In a very real sense, the way you build your lord, and indeed if you even take one, has a very large impact on the way you should build and use your terminators. Combat lords require an aggressive play style, cheap lords means that you are probably running more terminators (in larger squads) and the bricks don't move, but need to be able to put on the hurt.
So what do you do with your list if you are running a lord?
Well firstly, you probably are playing more aggressively, with at least one large terminator unit or LR transport that is aiming to get into combat and smash some face. While there are two relics that offer ranged weapons to the lord, for the most part they are tooled for combat, up close and personal. As such you want to be taking units that compliment this, either by being large enough to make it across the field, or inside a moving box.
The other major bonus that a Lord offers your list is fearless. Very important for you terminators that lack this rule to prevent them from running off the board. This is yet another reason to use the Lord in larger squads as that way you maximise the efficiency of the benefit. This is particularly important for those large legion phalanxes to prevent them from running off the board if you are unlucky in your Ld tests.
Another way to use the Lord is as a stand in/replacement for the solo Mutilator, a Lord is faster has more wounds than and more attacks than a mutilator, and if the equipment cost is kept low is not that much more expensive than a Mutilator, this tactic works best with Khorne Lords who have enough attacks to wipe decent sized squads, and Nurgle Lords who have the resilience to shrug of firepower on the turn they arrive.
So let's have a look at choosing a load out for your lord.

Power Weapons/Lightning Claws/ Power fists: Basically everything that applies to equipping basic Terminators applies to the lord, with the following caveat. The Lord has a higher I than you basic Terminator, therefore when you take an unwieldy weapon like the Axe or Fist you are sacrificing more than you would on a Basic terminator. However the counter point to this is that your Lord also has more wounds than the basic guys, therefore he is more likely to survive to strike at I1. The Power weapon Lord is one way to keep your Lord cheap, but I don't feel personally that it offers enough bang for its buck, I'm a fan of always upgrading the equipment for the lord up from the basics.
One trick when upgrading your lord is to keep the power weapon, none of the CC relics are Specialist weapons, therefore by keeping the basic power weapon you gain yourself +1 attack, and all you really lose is the Twin-linked Bolter shots, which can be a very tasty trade. Furthermore you can use this to give yourself options, for example if you equip the Black mace or the Spine Shiver blade then you can compliment them with a free Axe for when you need to deal with those pesky 2+ saves.
Another is to take the Fist and the Claw at the same time, netting you the plus one attack and either 2xS or Shred, depending on what you swing with. This is a fairly cost efficient combo but in my opinion I prefer the relics, just because they offer alternate and different ways of playing.

Twin-linked/Combi Bolter: The other side of the basic Terminator Lord load-out. Again they are not bad weapons, do what it says on the tin, but they are very lack lustre. If you want a lord with a range attack worth a damn then you should be upgrading above these with the relics, and if you want a combat lord then keeping the Power Weapon is probably better for you due to the extra attack.

Relics:
Axe of Blind Fury: Choppy, Choppy, Kill, Death, Blood!
I love this thing, it basically combines all the strengths of a Mace and an Axe, without the drawbacks of either, and then just for icing throws on the Daemon weapons +D6 attacks.....what's not to love?
Oh yeah, only Khorne Lords can take this....sigh!
Other than, the AoBF is a truly frightening weapon. striking hard and fast with a huge number of attacks. Up to 12 with good rolls and the right load out. This weapon basically handles anything you are likely to run into but in order to gain an extra attack it is a prime candidate for keeping the Power Weapon. Finally due to the changes to 7th you don't need to be afraid of wasting this bad boy in challenges, as after you turn whatever you're locked against into chunks you will keep on going right into the unit he's with.

Black Mace: Smashy, Squishy, Kill, Death, Rot!
See what I did there?
This is the other daemon weapon in the basic Relic list and it's not too bad for a Lord. What it lacks in AP adn strength it makes up for in shear damage potential output, with its ability to chain wounds through hordes or put wounds on any model with a T value on 2+. Furthermore it has the ability, though unlikely to kill multi wound models outright due to the cursed special rule, and you'll note that this special rule even bypasses EW, so when you really want to kill that pesky Lysander and Draigo smash 'em in the face a couple of times with this thing. Pair it with an Axe to make yourself a menace to anything you are likely to run into.
NB: It's still up in the air whether the Cursed rule kicks in for every unsaved wound. Personally I'm of the opinion that it does, because the special rule lacks the "one or more" wording that GW uses in those cases. Wording that is used later in that same rule, this to me suggests the first part of the rule operates under different circumstances.

Burning Brand of Skallathrax: Burn 'em All!
One of the tow range relics this weapon is one of the best range character weapons in the game, and is basically there to turn your lord into a miniature Heldrake (with turret). Yes it has a low strength but it more than makes up for that with range, and it's insane ability to generate hits.
Putting it in mathematical terms you will kill half the marines you tag with this template. and honestly it doesn't matter how many attacks other lords can put out, none of them are going to work up the shear body count this thing can in a game. Even better because it is a template weapon it gains the wall of death special rule, netting you D3 S4 AP3 attacks in close combat that are effectively calculated above I10.
I really like running the burning brand on a lord in a Terminator unit, because the Brand compliments the Terminator weapon load outs really well. If they are running plasma then the Brand has the range and AP to match targets and if you are running Heavy flamers/Flamers then another template in the unit is always great and can help generate enough wounds to menace almost all wound based models.
I like to pair this weapon with a CC weapon that can maximise damage output at a cheap price. Namely a Power or Chain Fist. It helps to keep the cost down while still ensuring that the Lord is a threat to most units in combat.
Oh, and it can set units on fire!

Murder Sword: Just no!
Seriously this is probably the worst weapon to put on your Terminator Lord, Unlike Biker/Mount Lords where there is some argument to be made for the use of the Murder Sword as an area denial weapon, with Terminator armour you are just too slow to force the confrontation. Furthermore there are just better weapons in the book, even taking the Claw/Fist combo you replicate the effects of this weapon on most opponents for cheaper. Leave it at home and look elsewhere.

Dimensional Key: If you were expecting a just no for this one, like the Murder Sword, then you would be wrong.
While the Dimensional Key has its issues with not being effective until turn 3 at the earliest, that isn't as much of a problem for Terminator based lists as it is for more traditional builds. You see most terminator lists(Particularly Nurgle and Slaanesh lists) have the staying power to keep a few minimal units on the board before bringing home a brutal shock assault. This Item works particularly well on a Lord running in a Land Raider, you should combine it with an aegis and a Comms Relay to ensure that your units stay off the table turn 2 but the ability to drop terminator squads with pinpoint accuracy regardless of their size can be very very powerful. This Works particularly well for a Khorne Lord as he can grab the benefit of the Icon to ensure that he doesn't flubb the charge out of the raider.

Scrolls of Magnus: Not much to say for this one, it's a cool way to theme your Tzeentch lords to be roughly analogous to a ML1 Psyker. They get the primaris power only until they generate form a second discipline unfortunately, but it's a bit of a fun little item and you can get some nice powers using it. Furthermore the ML1 is hardly a limitation as you pool psychic powers this edition, meaning that if you roll a good power mid/early game you can still cast it. If you are taking this Relic then you should combo it with the Sigil, the 3++ you net really helps to shrug off its negative effects. The strength 3 Ap2 hit is negligble as if you are running a Tzeentch Lord then you should be taking the sigil of Corruption anyway giving you a 3++.

Spineshiver Blade: Pretty much the slaaneshi daemon weapon, the Spineshiver is nice weapon that compensates for its Ap3 with a bucket load of daemon weapon attacks. A Lord with this item strikes at I6, or an insane I7 if they are Slaanesh marked. Combo's well with an axe to allow the Lord options for dealing with tougher models. Also Works nice on Khorne Lords for I6, S5 Ap3 attacks on the charge, and can be a nasty surprise on a Nurgle lord as most people expect them to be slow and ponderous.

The Crucible of Lies: This is an interesting relic, it's a bit expensive in my opinion given that the downside (-1 T) mostly seems to outweigh the benefit (re-roll 1s for svs). It best goes on a Tzeentch Lord who can grab the 3++ and then get the option to re-roll half their failed saves. I have seen it suggested on a Nurgle lord whose +1T cancels out the negative, but paying 40 pts for what is effectively only re-roll 1s isn't very good. The only place this relic really fits is one heavily "themed" characters as a way of creating a "regular human" Lord as opposed to a space marine.

Eye of Night: The other range relic, its kinda like a Combi-nuke? Works better on a Terminator Lord than most models due to the Relentless nature of the armour.
It will screw up parking lots or heavy vehicles like Land raiders with its multiple Hull point damage. Use it to assassinating vehicles that pack the weaponry to hurt your list with ease such as anti-TEQ vehicles or Anti-Air tanks if you run drakes or Anti-Artillery pieces is you really on cultist/zombies. But against ground troops its of limited effectiveness, its low S, scatter and single shot, means that it just can't compare to the Burning Brand when used on infantry. However ignores cover means that it can be used to hammer a unit that relies on cover to survive.
The key to using this item is twofold, the most obvious aspect is ensuring you have the correct target priority, while 75 is a steep price, a long range means of eliminating/crippling a vehicle at will can be game changing. The other key to this item is intimidation, force your opponent to respond to the presence of this item on your lord by hiding his tanks/vulnerable infantry units.

Skull of Ker'ngar: Eternal Warrior. nuff said?
Nah this has a bit of depth to it, see the Skull is an interesting item, there is really no reason not to take it, but if you do you should be aware that it works better on some lords than others. For example, it is less desirable on Nurgle Lords who already have immunity to most instant death to begin with. However it works best on Lords either built to Challenge/Tackle Monstrous Creatures, or Lords designed to tank wounds for the rest of their unit. The only real drawback to the skull is the relic list it is a part of, because if you are taking this relic then you aren't taking the better offensive relics. Works best on Tzeentch/Slaanesh Lords who are likely rocking items from this list anyway.
NB: Oh it also gives you adamantine will so you get some protection from Psykers.

Hand of Darkness: The bad touch relic. This thing is a nifty little thing that can be used to make a single attack in the assault phase instead of using your regular attacks. Statistically it's not the greatest as the single attack often doesn't have a good chance of actually hitting the prime targets (usually a 4+) but when it does conect causes some serious hassles. Its best taken if you expect to run into a lot of non-character Monstrous Creatures as it should kill them in 1 or 2 combat rounds. Due to the changes to vehicle damage in 7th it has less chance of killing a vehicle outright (3+ followed by 4+) but again, against heavier vehicles and walkers it should kill them over a turn or two. This item works best on those lord builds that are designed to tank wounds, so Nurgle or Tzeentch and probably rocking the Skull.
NB: Oh and it's NOT a specialist weapon, so pair it with your power weapon to get an extra attack against regular mooks.

Blade of the Relentless: A Power Sword that Gets better. It's the only weapon a Lord can get from this list, but it's a good one, it's pretty easy to unlock the +1S and the Ap2 with 3 kills, which every Lord should be able to get too, even with just the power sword. Getting the second Strength boost and the Instant Death is harder, and if that's your goal then you are better off taking different weapons and accepting their drawbacks. This is Sword, and indeed most of the relics in this list tend to be better for the non-Khorne lord. If you are taking this weapon, then taking a land raider transport is a good idea, as you want to ensure that you have the mobility to engage the units you want in an order that allows you to maximise the effect of the weapon. IE: Charge a chaff squad first before engaging harder targets etc...

Slaughterer's Horn's: Turn your Lord into a Khorne Lord.....seriously this item gives you most of the bonuses Khorne Lords enjoy without the drawbacks (such as no MoN). Very cheap it works really well to turn even cheaper, less outfitted lords into a combat threat. Take some basic equipment and spend the minimal points on the Horns to make that Basic equipment more effective. If you are buying a Lord mostly for the Fearless bonus then grabbing the Horns to go with the naked Terminator loadout is a pretty good idea.

Prophet of the Voices: In a Terminator list the Prophet has only 1 real place due to the restriction on which units you can join. And that is the Lordillator, the granting of fleet means that your Lord can deepstrike out of line of sight and be more likely to pull of longer charges on the turn that he does decide to come out to play. Furthermore, all the rolls on the Slaves table improve the Lordinators chances of survival.

So to close, in a sense the Relic list you choose should define the type of Lord you build. For the Most case if you want a Lord that focuses on Destruction of the enemy then the basic list is best. If you want a Lord Which is more resilient then the Black Legion Relics will help you more. And if you want to keep your Lord reasonably cheap then the Crimson Slaughter is generally the way to go.

Next installment Sorcerers (oh god, this is going to be as long as the Lords isn't it.....)

- - - Updated - - -

As a long term Deathguard player I have mixed feelings about an all terminator force. I do love my objective secured Plague Marines.
Back in 4th ed I did considder a termie army and bought the Apocalypse termie strike force they released several years ago (15 termies + termie Lord). Now that 7th edition allows termies to score as well as contest (except against troop choices) the idea of a Plaguewing force is much more appealing.

HQ: Typhus, Termie MoN Lord with claw & Brand
Elites: 3x7 Termies with MoN, Plenty of combi weapons and a mix of close combat weapons.
Troops: 1x30 Zombies and several other 10 strong zombie units
Fast: nope
Heavy: 2 or 3 pairs of Obliterators with MoN.

The Zombies are there to hold objectives being fearless and with FNP they are difficult to shift from cover especially when there are far more deadly termies deepstriking in the enemy's face and threatening a charge after combi-plasma spamming a unit to death on arrival. I don't feel too bad at including their unarmoured corpses in such a list. In orter to take them you must have Typhus and if he isn't the living embodiment of the Plaguewing. The Lord makes another unit fearless and gets I5 in challenges and of course the brand is great at shifting people from cover.

This is basically how I would run it too, though I'd only run the ZOmbies in large squads, even if that means less units overall.

[40kGamer]

Alright you evil git! I'm going to blow the dust off my Chaos codex and actually play with some themed lists this coming weekend.

It's just a shame that there's no way to actually make Chaos Terminators troops in any of the existing supplements but I guess a cheap cultist tax isn't too bad to pay. Can you get by with 2xminimal cultist squads to save points for more termies or to actually have a chance of winning do you think you need more depth in the troops section?

[Caitsidhe]

Alright you evil git! I'm going to blow the dust off my Chaos codex and actually play with some themed lists this coming weekend.

It's just a shame that there's no way to actually make Chaos Terminators troops in any of the existing supplements but I guess a cheap cultist tax isn't too bad to pay. Can you get by with 2xminimal cultist squads to save points for more termies or to actually have a chance of winning do you think you need more depth in the troops section?

The Cultist tax isn't bad. All my CSM lists pay the Cultists tax these days, i.e. freeing up more points for everything else. I'm still not sold on the Terminators being useful for more than Termicide (which I still make regular use of) but I'm hoping to hear about good results from all of you.

[daboarder]

Alright you evil git! I'm going to blow the dust off my Chaos codex and actually play with some themed lists this coming weekend.

It's just a shame that there's no way to actually make Chaos Terminators troops in any of the existing supplements but I guess a cheap cultist tax isn't too bad to pay. Can you get by with 2xminimal cultist squads to save points for more termies or to actually have a chance of winning do you think you need more depth in the troops section?

The Cultist tax isn't bad. All my CSM lists pay the Cultists tax these days, i.e. freeing up more points for everything else. I'm still not sold on the Terminators being useful for more than Termicide (which I still make regular use of) but I'm hoping to hear about good results from all of you.

Cait is right, the Cultist tax is very minimal at 110 pts.

I honestly just explain to most of my opponents that the list is using unbound to create a theme and to force me into a bound list would be honestly pointless as it is a minimal investment in pts and list change for me, they will still be facing the majority of my terminators if they make an issue of it.

If they still cry cheese or refuse, then I upgrade my Lord to Typhus and shove 40 zombies down their throat backed up by massed T5 terminators with Combipla/Axe.....they tend to get the point after that.

As I pointed out in the first post, I'll cover Cultists/Zombies later.

And Cait, I know your not a huge fan of terminator lists, and that's fine, I just feel I should re-iterate that this thread is designed to explain how to make a terminator list work to the best of its abilities after you've decided that's what you want to run.

[Caitsidhe]

Cait is right, the Cultist tax is very minimal at 110 pts.

I honestly just explain to most of my opponents that the list is using unbound to create a theme and to force me into a bound list would be honestly pointless as it is a minimal investment in pts and list change for me, they will still be facing the majority of my terminators if they make an issue of it.

If they still cry cheese or refuse, then I upgrade my Lord to Typhus and shove 40 zombies down their throat backed up by massed T5 terminators with Combipla/Axe.....they tend to get the point after that.

As I pointed out in the first post, I'll cover Cultists/Zombies later.

And Cait, I know your not a huge fan of terminator lists, and that's fine, I just feel I should re-iterate that this thread is designed to explain how to make a terminator list work to the best of its abilities after you've decided that's what you want to run.

No worries. I'm hoping to hear about some things I haven't thought of or that worked better than my own experiences. In fairness, most of my previous testing was in previous editions when Terminators didn't score, so it is possible the META shift helps them a little bit. I just wish they had given us access to damn Storm Shields. Why that technology is beyond CSM is beyond me. Are we unable to pick up a damn shield from fallen Terminators we kill?

[daboarder]

No worries. I'm hoping to hear about some things I haven't thought of or that worked better than my own experiences. In fairness, most of my previous testing was in previous editions when Terminators didn't score, so it is possible the META shift helps them a little bit. I just wish they had given us access to damn Storm Shields. Why that technology is beyond CSM is beyond me. Are we unable to pick up a damn shield from fallen Terminators we kill?

Yeah SS's would have been nice, but to get the most out of them you really need them inside a LR, and our LR is pretty bad for assault units. I still think we make far better shooting terminator units than the Loyalists though, and in 7th thats a big thing.