Daboarder's Chaos Terminator List Tactics

[Mad Cat]

As a long term Deathguard player I have mixed feelings about an all terminator force. I do love my objective secured Plague Marines.
Back in 4th ed I did considder a termie army and bought the Apocalypse termie strike force they released several years ago (15 termies + termie Lord). Now that 7th edition allows termies to score as well as contest (except against troop choices) the idea of a Plaguewing force is much more appealing.

HQ: Typhus, Termie MoN Lord with claw & Brand
Elites: 3x7 Termies with MoN, Plenty of combi weapons and a mix of close combat weapons.
Troops: 1x30 Zombies and several other 10 strong zombie units
Fast: nope
Heavy: 2 or 3 pairs of Obliterators with MoN.

The Zombies are there to hold objectives being fearless and with FNP they are difficult to shift from cover especially when there are far more deadly termies deepstriking in the enemy's face and threatening a charge after combi-plasma spamming a unit to death on arrival. I don't feel too bad at including their unarmoured corpses in such a list. In orter to take them you must have Typhus and if he isn't the living embodiment of the Plaguewing. The Lord makes another unit fearless and gets I5 in challenges and of course the brand is great at shifting people from cover.

[daboarder]

Terminators:

Whoa boy, this is going to be a long one. (this was over 6 pages in word at font 11...you guys better appreciate it!)

Firstly I would like to re-enforce that this review/tactics is done with the idea of a chaos terminator list, one that has access to the sorts of units listed in the above post, and where terminators are the bulk of the list. therefore the way that I am going to propose for their use will obviously be different to their use and application in a regular chaos list.

Numbers: I'd say from my experience aiming for approximately 15-20 terminators is a good solid core. this should leave your standard 1500-1850 list with plenty of points to buy the support option that will help do the heavy lifting for the list.
Furthermore I feel that your squads should only really be taken in 3 styles.
Legion Phalanx: Like the legions of old these terminator squads are 10 men strong, throw in a pair of heavy weapons on these, it's an all your eggs in 1 basket, but there aren't many lists that can bring enough force to bear on such a small area to kill all the terminators. keep these units central and provide them with character support and they will prove a solid core to your force.
Warband Squads: 5-7 terminators. These squads are more in line with what you would expect to see in a terminator force, they should be 5 minimum to unlock the heavy weapon options. consider adding more men to the squad if you want it to focus on close combat, as then you can afford to lose a terminator or two before you hit the opponents lines. If you're going to use these guys as a retinue for your characters they can do with a few extra bodies again to before you lose combat effectiveness. squads these size really do need overlapping army support, don't stick a unit of terminators out on a flank and expect them to hold it by themselves, dont pull your punches and apply overwhelming force.
Termicide: 3 Terminators, usually loaded out to drop in behind enemy lines and nuke a target before wreaking whatever havoc they have in the time they have. These really are purely support units and should only ever be taken in addition to larger line units as they just don't have the staying power to make up the core of your force.

Equipment: So now we have numbers aside let's look at how to equip your terminators.

The basic Terminator comes with a Twin-linked bolter and generic power weapon, and in my opinion, as a squad loadout this is far superior to what the loyalists have with their storm bolters and Powerfist/Power sword. The reason for this belief is a combination of flexibility and price.

Twin-Linked Bolter: In my opinion these are superior to storm bolters. When taking into account a squad of these firing they are comparable to the storm bolters at a 12-24 range. They have less shots but each shot is far more likely to hit, meaning that statistically they are roughly the same. the storm bolter will however have increased potential damage at this range. At the 0-12 range the Twin-linked Bolter is clearly superior with its re-roll and same number of shots. Finally remember that bolters are actually a fairly solid weapon and in numbers are able to damage most units in the game.

Power Weapons: Generic Power weapons are great, and allow you to tailor your unit for the specific role that you want to use them for, each weapon offers a different advantage, and believe it or not I think all of them have their place (yes even the spear)
Sword: Generic all rounder, has Ap3 and strike at initiative. If you face a lot of opponents that run power armour or unwieldy weaponry then the sword is a good weapon because of its ability to strike at the same time of before anything that is likely to actually hurt you.
Maul: If you are worried about vehicles, or High toughness MCs that the other weapons just can't touch, then the maul is the power weapon for you, it works better on units that have a large number of attacks which compensate for its poor Ap value of 4. That being said it works hilariously good against xenos forces where its Ap is less of a drawback due to the limited access these armies typically have to 3+ sv's, and against certain armies the Maul is a death sentence to their expensive multi wound models with its S of 6/7 causing instant death with every hit.
Axe: Probably the most popular weapon, and definitely the best "all rounder" it is effective against almost all opponents with its +1S and Ap2. Most vehicles in the game have a rear armour of 10 and as such massed S5 attacks will HP them down in combat. Even against Loyalist Fist terminators the axe is a good choice, as it is likely to result in mutually assured destruction at the worst of times (and given our larger numbers that usually ends up as a win for us). I would definitely consider the axe to be the weapon of choice if you face a large number of 2+ Sv opponents, or you have decided to go down the "defensive" unit route (will be discussed later). However if you favour a more aggressive unit construction then the other weapons will probably serve you better.
Lance: I love the lance, as a concept, I just wish GW had made them more like the halberds that Grey Knights have access to instead of the weird hybrid Maul/Sword they work as. But let's not dwell on what could be. the lance has a place in a very specific style of terminator unit, namely hyper aggressive units that are able to maximize the potential benefits of the lance while minimizing its drawbacks.
With that in mind I think the Lance has a place on Slaanesh Terminators, for a nice S5/I5/Ap3, that are charging out of a land raider, where the raider largely ensures that the terminators are able to charge the unit they desire instead of getting counter charged and bogged down by chaff.
The other unit that Lances work well with is Khorne Terminators, giving them a bucket load of S6/Ap3 attacks on the charge, taking the Icon of wrath helps to ensure that they can pull off longer charges, also buffering them form counter charges by the opponents. Furthermore the addition of counter attack means that they have a respectable 3 attacks each when they unfortunately do get charged by chaff units.

Combi-Weapons: Brilliant weapons, for when you really need that opposing squad to die. combi-weapons are a great way to maximise the kill potential of a unit by ensuring that they can cut down what opposes them. Personally I am not a fan of mixing types. As I have pointed out, given that they are your line troops in this type of list, then your terminators should have a defined role and stick to it.
The combi-weapon I prefer is the plasma variant, able to menace any unit in the game the combi-plasma also has the range to actually ensure that it can be used before your start losing terminators (and the invested points). I particularly like the combi-plasma on Termicide squads, as I find it is considerably better than the meltagun, at all ranges combi-pasma's are more likely to do hull point damage to any vehicle that they can hurt than a melta gun volley will. furthermore, the melta gun's chance of exploding an vehicle has diminished this edition with the changes to the damage chart. When also taking into account that a termicide unit must be within 6 to make maximum effect of melta's compared to a safer and more flexible 12 for the plasma variants I feel that the plasma variants are significantly better for this technique.
The melta variant is better for Squads that either have the speed to close with the enemy fast (Khorne units) or are charging out of a transport, allowing them to engage an opposing transport before charging the occupants, thus allowing your support options to direct their fire elsewhere. Though be sure to fire the terminators first, in case they flubb, that way you can then fall back on your support options to kill the opposing vehicle.
Flamers are obviously great for clearing our infantry, and are even able to put out enough wounds to menace high save infantry. I consider these a more defensive option given their access to the wall of death special rules, as such they work rather well with units that you do not want to be charged and bogged down by chaff units, they therefore work best on foot slogging units that MUST get the charge (Lance) or units that are designed to hold ground (Nurgle).

Fists: like the Lightning claws, I will cover both Powerfists and Chainfists in this segment. In my opinion Fists should be treated similar to heavy weapons and only taken in limited numbers, they have too many drawbacks against foes to be taken on every single terminator (not to mention their cost). that being said, a Fist or two can act as a serious force multiplier in squads that are designed to get up in the enemies face. They work particularly well when combo'd with Lances, making up for the weakness of those weapons but not detracting from their strengths.
Chainfists themselves are really just overkill, unless you think you lack the support to deal with land raiders, monoliths and dreadnoughts then taking Chainfists is kind of a waste, as your army should have other units better able to deal with those targets. again stay away from the swiss army knife mentality. Frankly I just don't really fin fists to be worth the cost when Mauls and Axes are both already bought options.

Lightning Claws: I am going to cover both variants here at the same time. Lightning claws are interesting weapons, they really boost the carnage a squad of terminators does against its foes, against low T models tey emphasise the brutality a unit can inflict upon a target and against High toughness models they allow a more reliable method of ensuring at least some wounds are placed on the model. In that sense they are very much to models with a toughness value, what power fists are to models with an armour one. Therefore you can get away with treating them as Close Combat specialist weapons and only taking one or two in a squad designed for combat.
That being said, Lightning claws have a Niche where they are very, very effective. Namely marine killing. the shred rule, combined with their I means that models with lightning claws murder opposing power armour. they work particularly well with Slaanesh units, striking first and cutting down opponents before they strike. in that sense they are like a more reliable Lance/Sword weapon and if you are willing to pay the points they can be worth it.
Paired Lightning claws sacrifice ranged offensive potential for magnified combat potential, so if you're going to this route, don't hesitate to stick the squad into a transport to keep it safe, as you are not missing out on any game influence while they are embarked.

Heavy Flamer: A modestly priced heavy weapon option the heavy flamer offers a good defensive boost due to the wall of death rule, while being cheap enough to buy in a squad as an "in case" weapon. In all my years of playing I have never really thought there are many times where having that 10 pts would be a major impact in my army lists, but there are conversely tonnes where having the Heavy flamer has paid off spectacularly. This weapon really only should be taken as a purchase of opportunity on squads that are trying to move into the enemy. if your want the squad to be more shooting oriented then take the Reaper Autocannon instead.

Reaper Autocannon: The reaper gets a lot of flak for being highly priced and rather lacklustre. However it is still a reliable ranged weapon able to pile on the wounds or HPs onto a target from a reasonable range. I like to throw this weapon on my line squads to add a little bit of extra oomph to their ranged presence when I don't have the points for an extra obliterator or dreadnought.
Individually the Reaper is nothing to really write home about, but when you have 3 or 4 spread throughout an army and then focus them on a single target that you want dead then they start to be telling. Personally I think they pair really well with combi-plasma squads, as they have the range and strength to match the desired targets for such combi weapons. One way to look at the reaper is as 2 reasonably assured saves on most models in the game each turn.

Marks and Icons:
Khorne: Used for aggressive terminators that should be aiming to get in close to the enemy and deal damage, it increases the number of attacks each terminator has which is valuable when the only way to get dual combat weapons is by choosing paired lightning claws. It also has the added benefit of opening up access to the Icon of Wrath, a fantastic little boost for a modest price that buffers your terminators from flubbing short charges but also pushes the probability curve density to the higher results, meaning that its more likely that you can pull off 8 and 9 inch charges with your terminator squads. When outfitting MoK squads you want to kit them out to keep punching the opponent, the heavy flamer is a good heavy weapon choice and Flamer/Melta combi-weapons depending on which power weapons you give the squad are a good choice.
Slaanesh: The other aggressive mark is Slaanesh, while it appears to emphasise speed over attacks with +1I is has the added bonus of unlocking the Icon of Excess, granting your terminators FNP. While that may seem little to begin with, when coupled with a 2+/ 5++ it means that your terminators are as survivable or more so than many similar units in other armies, you just have to watch out for the big S8 blast attacks. Slaanesh units can really be built as all rounders, able to do combat or shooting with equal measure. but still don't mix roles. if you want them to be combat monsters, build them as such with lances/swords/mauls/Lightning claws. Stay away from the Axe and the Fists as at that point you are giving up one of the reasons to choose Slaanesh in the first place (the I5). If you are going the shooting route then take combi-weapons and a reaper. I'd suggest the combi-plasma variant in this case, as the IoE further limits the gets hot draw back and you want the additional range offered over the melta and flamer variants. The Twin-linked bolter however is also perfectly acceptable if you want the squad to remain as cheap as possible.
Tzeentch: The first of the defensive buffs is a very specific thing, if you face or expect to face a lots of AP1 & 2 weaponry then the MoT can be worth its weight in gold. An important point to remember is that while your terminators do not shrug off such weaponry the same way that TH/SS terminators do, they are not sacrificing any of their combat potential in order to gain their resilience. The icon of Flame is a very cheap upgrade and can be worth the cost providing you remember to keep track of it. Much like Slaanesh terminators can be considered offensive terminators with a small defensive buff, Tzeentch terminators can be considered defensive with a small offensive buff. The soul blaze rule allows such terminators to do additional damage to the kind of units that such an elite army can struggle with, namely large hordes of low class infantry such as Orks and Tyranids. That being said, soulblaze is also reasonably effective against Eldar infantry of both types and can be an good way to pile a few more wounds onto the odd monstrous creature. Think of it as an extra ranged shot. If you do take this icon then I wouldn't recommend swapping our any of your bolt guns for the combi-variants as you want to maximise the potential for causing units to catch on fire.
Nurgle: This one is my personal baby given that I run a largely Nurgle themed force, and to be fair it's probably the most ostensibly powerful of the lot of them due to its fairly straight forward effect.
See the largest single drawback to Terminator armies is their low numbers, meaning that they are very vulnerable to outliers in the statistics of dice results and volume of fire. it's not unheard of to hear of multiple small arms wounds resulting in devastating casualties in terminator units due to rolling the dreaded 1's. What Mark of Nurgle does is offer the most concrete defence available to any terminator unit in the game against torrenting small arms fire, in the form of +1 toughness. Knocking the number of wounds taken form S4 guns from half down to a third has a HUGE impact on the survivability of your Terminator units long term.
Load out wise you can equip nurgle terminators with any weapon and they will do the job you require, however taking weapons such as Axes and Fists on these units is advisable as they have less to fear from either high I Ap2 weapons (which are typically low S) or massed low S moderate imitative attacks. Nurgle terminators probably make the best purely defensive Terminators, therefore spending points on their ranged upgrades so that they can punish the enemy as they advance is never a bad idea, reaper-autocannons and combi-plasmas are a good combination in this case as their comparable strength and range means that your units can target units and not result in wasting their firepower. I tend to find that keeping these guys cheap by not upgrading their offensive combat weapons compensates for the steeper price of the mark without significantly compromising their combat potential as they are suited more to taking the more powerful but slower combat weaponry anyway.
Don't bother with the Icon of Despair, fear is pretty much the worst special rule in the game, and I don't actually think there is a unit vulnerable to the rule that wouldn't be smashed in combat by your terminators anyway. Furthermore if you are running Crimson Slaughter Terminators, then you already have fear.

EDIT: As shown by Mad Cat bellow, slaanesh terminators with the IoE are more survivable in almost all cases than terminators with the MoN, however, the drawbacks associated with the IoE balance out the potential benefits, namely that the effect only lasts as long as the icon bearer is alive, and that the icon is more expensive. That being said I think this highlights what a solid purchase the IoE is to slaanesh units, and shows that it should probably be a standard purchase for all squads except termicide, where it is easily removed.

Icon of Vengeance: A solid boost for our terminators granting them fearless. always a benefit and if you think it's appropriate then feel free to take it. Personally I feel that the Icon of Wrath and Excess are more beneficial to those units given that Terminators already have a high Ld and those icons help the units accomplish their battlefield roles. That being said, if your units are not operating with character support (which is likely that they are the core of your army and you should have multiple units) then the Icon of Vengeance provides a buffer from those dreaded moral tests.

Veterans of the Long War: a solid upgrade, if a bit expensive on terminator units, the best place for this upgrade is obviously on combat units that expect to face a lot of power armoured armies. otherwise you can likely get by without it too much.

Bringer's of Despair: In the interest of completion I will throw this in here, its a very expensive upgrade, but it has a very obvious place. And that is the hyper-focused black legion anti-marine list, for when you absolutely have to grind your mates space marine army into the dust. You want to spend this upgrade on a big central unit (legion phalanx) as you can only have one in the army. The +1 WS/BS will help you against all armies, but given that you must by VotLW and your obviously taking Abbadon in this list (who is likely with the bringers giving them Preferred enemy Space Marnes) then taking Combi-Plasma's and Reaper autocannon's to really drive home the marine killing is funny.
Given that you are already spending a lot of points on this kind of squad I wouldn't recommend upgrading the Combat weapons, your killing marines, so take Swords and Axes and slaughter the servants of the corpse god!

As a final note, you really want to keep your terminators as cheap as the squad needs to be, in order to maximise its strengths, don't try and match loyalist swiss army builds as it will end up sacrificing our greatest strength for no real bonus. Don't be afraid if your terminators cannot solo that dreadnought or wraith knight, we have access to plenty of support options that will be able to kill those units before they can engage our main force.

[Mad Cat]

Here is a little math-hammer to illustrate the above post.

Average Hits

Storm Bolter = 1.33 hits at 0-24" range
Combibolter = 1.77 hits at 0-12" range and 0.89 hits at 12-24" range
Bolter (after firing combiplas etc) = 1.33 hits at 0-12" range and 0.67 hits at 12-24" range


Percentage change of killing a terminatior with common weapons (Assuming a single hit)

Weapon MoN MoT MoK MoS MoS+Icon
Lasgun 2.78% 5.56% 5.56% 5.56% 3.70%
Bolter 5.56% 8.33% 8.33% 8.33% 5.56%
Heavy Bolter 8.33% 11.11% 11.11% 11.11% 7.41%
Plasma gun 55.56% 41.67% 55.56% 55.56% 37.04%
Krak Missile 13.89% 13.89% 13.89% 13.89% 13.89%
Lascannon 55.56% 41.67% 55.56% 55.56% 55.56%

[daboarder]

Thank you madcat, would you be able to also crunch the numbers for plasma and melta Vs say AV 12?


hmmm interesting, MoS + IoE terminators are as survivable as Nurgle terminators against bolt wounds.....very interesting,

And MORE survivable against Plasma.....wow that is surprising....hmmm should let my deathwing playing mate know that, would make his day to find out that the banner of fortitude does that to his terminators.

edit: updated my post to account for Mad Cats statistical information.

and no love guys?

[40kGamer]

Man that was a MASSIVE post! Thank you for taking the time to put this all together! I have always thought that Chaos Terminators would make a really cool themed army and this is making me want to do some up! Curse you for encouraging my addiction!

For survivability, I am actually not surprised to see that the Slaanesh Icon makes them a bit more survivable over the MoN. Although as you pointed out the icon bearer must stay alive and in my experience, a crafty opponent snipes them pretty easily.

As for using a Phalanx... When I have run big Wraithguard units in the past (10 WG + Seer), I've basically walked them right up the middle of the board in most missions or against aggressive enemies, castled up and let them come to me. Is that similar to how you would use a full legion phalanx of these guys? I'm struggling with the footslogging speed. I usually play fast armies and big walking units is not in my wheelhouse.

[daboarder]

Man that was a MASSIVE post! Thank you for taking the time to put this all together! I have always thought that Chaos Terminators would make a really cool themed army and this is making me want to do some up! Curse you for encouraging my addiction!

For survivability, I am actually not surprised to see that the Slaanesh Icon makes them a bit more survivable over the MoN. Although as you pointed out the icon bearer must stay alive and in my experience, a crafty opponent snipes them pretty easily.

As for using a Phalanx... When I have run big Wraithguard units in the past (10 WG + Seer), I've basically walked them right up the middle of the board in most missions or against aggressive enemies, castled up and let them come to me. Is that similar to how you would use a full legion phalanx of these guys? I'm struggling with the footslogging speed. I usually play fast armies and big walking units is not in my wheelhouse.

Pleasure to encourage any addictions.

yes that is how I would suggest using a phalanx. There is however another option......its fun, but also significantly riskier.....Deepstrike.

As I said I wouldn't recommend it for anything but the hilarity and awesomeness that occurs when you do pull it off, but dropping 10 terminators and some assorted characters behind the opponents lines are likely to make anyone reach for a change of pants, particularly if you absolutely nuke whatever you want with a volley of combi-plas.

[DWest]

With the IoE concept, I believe it has been mentioned in other posts, but (until or unless it gets nerfed) you can put the banner on the Champion, and get at least a 4+ to fob the hit off onto a minion, which hopefully will keep the banner alive longer. Granted, it means the banner can be lost if the champ gets challenged and dies, but is there anything that can easily beat a 2+/5++/FNP character that *won't* tear the squad to bits in CC anyway?

[daboarder]

With the IoE concept, I believe it has been mentioned in other posts, but (until or unless it gets nerfed) you can put the banner on the Champion, and get at least a 4+ to fob the hit off onto a minion, which hopefully will keep the banner alive longer. Granted, it means the banner can be lost if the champ gets challenged and dies, but is there anything that can easily beat a 2+/5++/FNP character that *won't* tear the squad to bits in CC anyway?

While this might work for other armies, and indeed for certain units (ones that include and attached combat character, or designed specifically with shooting in mind) I would general consider it at best an equal survival option. while it may protect the banner from shooting due to the 4+ Los, the banner is then subjected to the problem of being forced into a challenge by the champions of chaos special rule.

As to challenge opponents, it really depends on what you are your champion is commonly armed with and what you typically face.
Nobz with power klaws would be brutal against a such a terminators, as the champion is unlikely cause 2 wounds at I on the nob (using a maul/sword/Claw/Lance). The Nob however readily strips a vital component from the champions defense by virtue of being S8 Ap2, leaving the champion with only his 5++.
A number of Eldar Exarchs can also be built in such a way that they are fairly tough for champion levels to decidedly beat in combat, and many can get high S (though not S8) Ap2 weaponry.
Finally there is the ubiquitous space marine sergeant with a power fist. there aren't a lot of players that wouldn't accept trading in their sergeant (whose leadership bonus is not really needed due to ATSKNF) in order to strip a slaaneshi terminator unit of its protection. Some sergeants can even have better chances of survival, Blood angel players for example can pit fist/shield sergeants with FNP against your champion if they have such builds

[Mad Cat]

[QUOTE=daboarder;433740]Thank you madcat, would you be able to also crunch the numbers for plasma and melta Vs say AV 12?

QUOTE]

Here we go.

Assumed a BS4 Terminator firing against a Chimera at the front armour and with no cover save.

Long range plasma = 1 Shot, 0.67 Hits, 0.11 Glances, 0.11 Penetrations, 0.02 Explosions.
Short range plasma = 2 Shots, 1.33 Hits, 0.22 Glances, 0.22 Penetrations, 0.04 Explosions.
Long range melta = 1 Shot, 0.67 Hits, 0.11 Glances, 0.22 Penetrations, 0.07 Explosions.
Short range melta = 1 Shot, 0.67 Hits, 0.11 Glances, 0.48 Penetrations, 0.16 Explosions.

[daboarder]

Here we go.

Assumed a BS4 Terminator firing against a Chimera at the front armour and with no cover save.

Long range plasma = 1 Shot, 0.67 Hits, 0.11 Glances, 0.11 Penetrations, 0.02 Explosions.
Short range plasma = 2 Shots, 1.33 Hits, 0.22 Glances, 0.22 Penetrations, 0.04 Explosions.
Long range melta = 1 Shot, 0.67 Hits, 0.11 Glances, 0.22 Penetrations, 0.07 Explosions.
Short range melta = 1 Shot, 0.67 Hits, 0.11 Glances, 0.48 Penetrations, 0.16 Explosions.

Cheers madcat

Lord article should be up within 24 hrs