D Weapons and Serpent Shields

[40kGamer]

So you resolve the 2 blasts independently? That way you can get 2 hits on the same target?

[JMichael]

So you resolve the 2 blasts independently? That way you can get 2 hits on the same target?

Yup, Rulebook p158.
You roll 2 scatter shots and add up the total hits from both shots. Then you total up the total hits on each unit and roll To Wound (and I assume Penetration rolls too).
And remember that the Scorpion's Pulsar is Twin-Linked so you can re-roll to hit with both shots!

[40kGamer]

Yup, Rulebook p158.
You roll 2 scatter shots and add up the total hits from both shots. Then you total up the total hits on each unit and roll To Wound (and I assume Penetration rolls too).
And remember that the Scorpion's Pulsar is Twin-Linked so you can re-roll to hit with both shots!

Thanks mate! It would have been nice to go after 2 targets but being able to concentrate fire at another superheavy or MC is still a big plus. Especially those pesky Knights that are popping up everywhere!

[Tynskel]

Hmmmm...

I think the Serpent Shield gives a significant advantage that is unintended by the D-Weapon rules.
D Weapons are supposed to obliterate stuff to little tiny bits. I can imagine the Serpent Shield downgrading to a glance, but ignoring the D3 hull points? I think not. Only Invulnerables have the capability of doing that.

[40kGamer]

Hmmmm...

I think the Serpent Shield gives a significant advantage that is unintended by the D-Weapon rules.
D Weapons are supposed to obliterate stuff to little tiny bits. I can imagine the Serpent Shield downgrading to a glance, but ignoring the D3 hull points? I think not. Only Invulnerables have the capability of doing that.

Yes sir. Local TO's ruled 2-5 can be downgraded to d3 glances and 6 bypasses shield altogether. Seems like a good interpretation as otherwise Serpents just laugh off D weapons.

[John Bower]

I'd have said if it knocks it down to a glance then... It's a single glance; end of. The D3 hits is caused by a penetrating hit no less. Any glancing hit is still just a glancing hit surely?

[DarkLink]

But by that logic then the serpent shield can downgrade the immobilized result from grav guns.

If the D's d3 hits results from a roll on the penetration vehicle damage table, the shield blocks it. If it is anadditional effect of the weapon rather than a result on said damage table, the shield does nothing for you.

[John Bower]

But by that logic then the serpent shield can downgrade the immobilized result from grav guns.

If the D's d3 hits results from a roll on the penetration vehicle damage table, the shield blocks it. If it is anadditional effect of the weapon rather than a result on said damage table, the shield does nothing for you.

But D weapons are not like grav weapons; grav guns don't use the damage table at all. Destroyer weapons do extra damage due to the extra punch they push in, which surely a shield is supposed to stop? What is the exact wording of the Serpent Shield rule? If it says simply 'reduces a penetrating hit to a glancing hit' then if it is a 2-5 on the D weapon chart you have your answer; a 6 will likely just punch right through like it is meant to do as that ignores invulns; cover or just about any other save you can think of. But a 2-5 is for all intents and purposes a normal pen hit; why do you think GW nerfed D weapons like that? It's so things like this can stop them working properly and your uber expensive FW kit doesn't go 'bang' on the first turn.

[Krefey]

Short of a 6 on the D damage table, it would become a glance that does D3 hull points. I couldn't see any justification for altering that penalty, though.

This seems the most straightforward option to me.

Super-heavies can fire each weapon at a different target, so both shots of your Heavy 2 gun have to go at a different unit, but anything else can be fired somewhere else.

As JMichael stated, any individual weapon will have to fire all shots at the same target unit. You can't split the two shots from a single pulsar at different units.

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Yes sir. Local TO's ruled 2-5 can be downgraded to d3 glances and 6 bypasses shield altogether. Seems like a good interpretation as otherwise Serpents just laugh off D weapons.

This also seems fair to me as well on reflection.

[DarkLink]

But D weapons are not like grav weapons; grav guns don't use the damage table at all.

Completely missing the point.

Destroyer weapons do extra damage due to the extra punch they push in, which surely a shield is supposed to stop?

The only thing the shield stops is "penetrating hits". If the d3 extra hull points is tied to penetrating hits, then the shield stops it. If it is simply an effect of being struck by a Str D weapon, the shield does absolutely nothing.

What is the exact wording of the Serpent Shield rule?

It "reduces a penetrating hit to a glancing hit". That means you have to specifically do a penetrating hit, and that the extra d3 has to be tied to said penetrating hit. If either of those two is untrue, then the shield is irrelevant.

If it says simply 'reduces a penetrating hit to a glancing hit' then if it is a 2-5 on the D weapon chart you have your answer; a 6 will likely just punch right through like it is meant to do as that ignores invulns; cover or just about any other save you can think of.

This is actually completely incorrect. A 6 only ignores saves. The Serpent Shield is not a save, rolling a 6 would have no effect on the shield. And rolling on the "D weapon chart" is only relevant if that counts as a penetrating hit.

But a 2-5 is for all intents and purposes a normal pen hit

Is it? I don't have the book in front of me. If you want to argue that point, quote the rule. Pontificating on how you think it should work is irrelevant. What matters is what the rules actually say.

why do you think GW nerfed D weapons like that? It's so things like this can stop them working properly and your uber expensive FW kit doesn't go 'bang' on the first turn.

There are a lot of reasons GW might nerf something, none of which are explicitly known to us and none of which are particularly relevant to what the rules actually are.