D Weapons and Serpent Shields

[DWest]

As JMichael stated, any individual weapon will have to fire all shots at the same target unit. You can't split the two shots from a single pulsar at different units.

O_o I meant to type "same unit" there, I honestly didn't see that I had put the wrong thing till now. Apologies.

[John Bower]

The only thing the shield stops is "penetrating hits". If the d3 extra hull points is tied to penetrating hits, then the shield stops it. If it is simply an effect of being struck by a Str D weapon, the shield does absolutely nothing.[/COLOR]
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Okay, so it reduces it to a glance; what point? If it still does D3 Hull points; and this is on a titan which apart from 'explodes' pretty much ignores the damage table anyhow; what would be the point of reducing it? Makes far more sense for a pen to do the D3 hull points for being a D weapon; and the glance to do the normal 1 as it's been slowed down stupidly, it's yield seriously reduced. Unless you get a 6 which should still ignore the serpent shield.

[DarkLink]

It only reduced penetrating hits, and nothing more. If the D3 is specifically the result of a D weapon causing a penetrating hit and a penetrating hit only, then and only then does the shield do anything. That's what the shield does, nothing more and nothing less. If the D3 is not specifically the result of a pen, then the shield has zero effect on it.

The shield is already a very powerful rule with plenty of purpose, or whatever nebulous poetry you can attribute its existence to. It's not like it becomes completely useless if there's one gun that can bypass it.

But, again, I don't have the rules for Str D in front of me.

[DR.V]

So the Destroyer weapon rule says to roll to hit as normal and then if the attack hits roll on the d-weapon table instead of rolling to wound or for armour pen. So in my opinion since you do not roll to see if you pen then the shield does not work, But 2-5 is a Penetrating hit that causes you to lose D3 hull points instead of 1. So I can see it both ways I gess it is up to the TO at your FLGS until GW does a FAQ.

[JMichael]

Thanks for this thread, it forced me to really read up on the Destroyer weapons. I have not yet faced them with my Eldar, but am now better prepared.
Important note that the table is not a damage table. But is called the 'Destroyer Weapon Attack Table'.
On that table, if you are shooting at a Wave Serpent and roll a 2-5 or a 6 you still have to roll on the vehicle damage table in addition to loosing the hull points, correct?
Then if you make your Serpent Shield roll to reduce the Pen to a Glance vs the Solid Hit or Devastating Hit you still suffer the d3 or d6+1 Hull Points but do not roll on the vehicle damage table.

As an Eldar Wave Serpent army player, I for one am totally okay with that! Makes sense and ensures I'll be Jinking around the board!

[40kGamer]

Thanks for this thread, it forced me to really read up on the Destroyer weapons. I have not yet faced them with my Eldar, but am now better prepared.
Important note that the table is not a damage table. But is called the 'Destroyer Weapon Attack Table'.
On that table, if you are shooting at a Wave Serpent and roll a 2-5 or a 6 you still have to roll on the vehicle damage table in addition to loosing the hull points, correct?
Then if you make your Serpent Shield roll to reduce the Pen to a Glance vs the Solid Hit or Devastating Hit you still suffer the d3 or d6+1 Hull Points but do not roll on the vehicle damage table.

As an Eldar Wave Serpent army player, I for one am totally okay with that! Makes sense and ensures I'll be Jinking around the board!

Always love to walk through uncommon rules interactions! It helps to have a clear idea of what makes sense before it comes up at the pivotal moment in a game.

[Allen Broussard]

This is the exact sequence for a destroyer hit on a wave serpent.

Pick target. Opponent can elect to jink.
Roll scatter. Determine "models" hit.
If wave serpent is hit, Roll on destroyer table.
For result 1, nothing happens. For result 2-5, roll jink save. For result 6, roll on the damage table once for the penetrating hit with a +1 modifier to see if explodes.
If jink save is passed, nothing happens. If jink save is failed the wave serpent is penetrated and looses an additional D3 hull points. You may roll serpent shield to downgrade the pen to a glance. Either way the serpent is going to loose 2-4 hull points.
If the serpent was removed and had passengers inside, roll for either explosion or emergency disembarkation.

[Charon]

Either way the serpent is going to loose 2-4 hull points.

And this is open to discussion.
If the d3 hullpoints are tied to the penetration (as it seems to indicate) you just lose 1 hp. If you lose d3 hp anyways (which is not in the ruletext) you lose 2 - 4

[40kGamer]

And this is open to discussion.
If the d3 hullpoints are tied to the penetration (as it seems to indicate) you just lose 1 hp. If you lose d3 hp anyways (which is not in the ruletext) you lose 2 - 4

Just reread the destroyer weapon attack table. I think it is open to interpretation as to what the 2-5 solid hit result does. On a 6 you're just flat out dead although the serpent shield isn't a save per se so someone could even argue that.

But going from the rules we have:

D Weapon Attack
"2-5 Solid Hit The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull points instead of 1"

Serpent shield
"All penetrating hits against front and side armour are downgraded to glancing on a D6 roll of 2+"

since a 2-5 is classed as a penetrating hit the shield should downgrade this to a glancing hit on a 2+. So the Wave serpent either loses 1 HP or d3 HP's to the glance but definitely not 2-4 as the pen causes d3 instead of 1 not 1+d3 in the first place.

I'm going to error on the side of caution and say the d3 HP loss on the glance is reasonable but this isn't written in blood.

[John Bower]

Ah but that would mean if you roll a '3' the Wave serpents shield did nothing for it; they only have 3 hull points which would make the shield null and void; great from the PoV of anyone going up against Eldar but a bit harsh don't you think? that the shield worked but did nothing for them?

Both my mate and I reckon its the same; downgrades to glancing and 1 HP damage; or it takes the pen if it fails and the D3 damage that goes with it. And on a 6... Boom! Gone. Shield may not technically be a save, but a true Destroyer 'hit' isn't a pen either; it's nuked, blown out of all memory and existence. Though interestingly Void shields do save whatever is under them. But I guess they are meant to stop starship class weaponry which is all Destroyer with no downgrades to 'penetrating', a single hit from an Emperor class battleship would remove even an Aquila strongpoint; automatically a '6' on the destroyer table.