BAN the Invisibility!

[Lost Vyper]

Go see it in action!

[url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?47103-Iyanden-vs-Inquisition-GK-2500p-HD-VIDEO-BATREP[/url]

[Haighus]

Casting a WC2 power is not difficult. It really isn't. It is not easy for your opponent to reliably block it, either. Throw six dice at it, and you've got an 89% chance of passing the test, and your opponent needs to roll ~18 Deny dice to get in the ballpark of a 50% chance of blocking it. You only have a 1/4 chance of Perils, and Perils doesn't actually do anything half the time now anyways, so your actual odds of taking a wound are closer to 1/8, and most of the stuff that will be casting Invisibility will have 3 wounds so who cares about Perils? So I'm not sure what your point is.

I think the point was in terms of reliably rolling it at the beginning of the game in the first place.

[Caitsidhe]

What Invisibility SHOULD have been is a two Warp Charge version of Shrouding which CANNOT be ignored or altered by weapons which normally ignore cover. In addition, those shooting at or engage in close combat should all be considered to be BS and WS-1. This would allow for the Tau to still be able to improve their chances of hitting, but not ignore the cover saves. It would force most people to hit on a 5+ (and against crappy troops it might not make them any worse).

The biggest issues in the game (which clearly were not tested adequately) are the ability to Ignore Cover, Invisibility (as it currently stands) and the ability to easily abuse Invulnerability saves. All of these things are easily fixed. Don't hold your breath. *In addition, I think units capable of assault (like FMC) who use Jink should pay a penalty for having done so. The 6th Edition rule requiring them to roll three dice and lose the highest for assault if they Jinked would be a good counter balance.

[DarkLink]

I think the point was in terms of reliably rolling it at the beginning of the game in the first place.

There are plenty of armies that can effectively guarentee that they get any given power. Belakor in particular automatically gets it, Daemons, CSM, GKs, Eldar all can spam enough psykers to have solid odds, and there are some other sources like Tigirius who has like a 75% chance of getting it on his own. If you want to abuse invisibility, you can write a list that will reliably get it.

[Lord Krungharr]

If they let flamer and blast templates hit them, as nothing works against unseen models like indiscriminate area attacks (napalm anyone?), then I'd be okay with it. They probably should've left the WS1 in combat alone, as even the Predator was somewhat visible when cloaked, he just had a very high weapon skill and initiative.

At least there's potential to hit them with flamers and blasts if the invisible unit is not the target of the attack, though it's so random with blasts, and probably very limited on hits with the tiny bits of flamer that may stick out enough.

I threw 6 dice at invisibility twice in a game and both times failed to cast it with Belakor. 1 Perils wound too. It gets dangerous, unless you're Eldar with all the Ghost helms and Shards of Honduras or whatever it's called to reduce the cost of the power to WC1.

[rpricew]

I wish we could get invisible hordes of Gaunts... alas, it is not possible.

[Tynskel]

I wish we could get invisible hordes of Gaunts... alas, it is not possible.

Come the Apocalypse!

[DarkLink]

If they let flamer and blast templates hit them, as nothing works against unseen models like indiscriminate area attacks (napalm anyone?), then I'd be okay with it. They probably should've left the WS1 in combat alone, as even the Predator was somewhat visible when cloaked, he just had a very high weapon skill and initiative.

At least there's potential to hit them with flamers and blasts if the invisible unit is not the target of the attack, though it's so random with blasts, and probably very limited on hits with the tiny bits of flamer that may stick out enough.

I threw 6 dice at invisibility twice in a game and both times failed to cast it with Belakor. 1 Perils wound too. It gets dangerous, unless you're Eldar with all the Ghost helms and Shards of Honduras or whatever it's called to reduce the cost of the power to WC1.

How did you perils but not pass? Also, the odds of success on 6 dice are about equal to a ld 10 power last edition.

[Lost Vyper]

What Invisibility SHOULD have been is a two Warp Charge version of Shrouding which CANNOT be ignored or altered by weapons which normally ignore cover.

THIS! I would try to get this SO HARD! I applaud you sir! See GW, s*** aint so hard! :0

[gory_v]

I think it would be a bit more balanced if it simply had everyone shooting at BS1 rather than 'snap shots.' It would at least open up the option to target them directly with templates/blasts.

In regards to getting it off, if your psyker can't reroll its psychic tests, you have to commit a lot of WC dice in order to reliably cast it and if you perils, there's a 1/3 chance for it to bite you in the ***. If your psyker CAN reroll tests (Tiggy/spell familiar/etc) then you're committing less dice on the idea that get a redo if you fail the first time. If done this way, it's statically easier to deny with fewer warp charges manifested. It's happened to me surprisingly often, but that's bc my buddy and I have committed our lists to providing 14-18 WC base via henchmen squads in razorbacks from GK.

Yes, there are those such as Tau, Necrons, and DE that don't have access to psychic powers, but they make up for it in other ways that those who do have access to psychic powers can't. DE is probably worst off, but they still very much hold their own with the boost that 'jink' got in 7th ed, poison, and that dirty dirty beast pack. I'm sure they'll only improve further when their codex gets updated. You could argue that Orks also have a rough go against psychic armies, but they are able to field more models and beat more face than most.

To sum it up, Invis is broken, but it shouldn't be banned. It could be watered down, but then it becomes useless if you do it too much.