Pask Punisher?

[entendre_entendre]

I agree w/ kloud
A punisher can work if u use it right. U lose AT fire by not taking a vanquisher? Ok just take a couple of HW squads w/ lascannons. Or outflank a mech platoon w/ Al'Rahem w/ melta-spam. Tanks aren't your problem anymore. w/ the latter u also get scoring units into your opponents flanks/rear. Hell, u could outflank scout setinels w/ lascannons, or maybe a few devil dogs, the list goes on.
A punisher may not be the best option, but it is certainly not as horrible as some of u would lead us to believe it is. For 200pts u get 29 shots. 29 shots. If u throw in a stubber for 10pts more u get 32 shots. G'bye hordes.
To Pask it? U be the judge. 14.5 hits w/o Pask (hvy bltrs included), about 19.1 hits with him

[Dingareth]

I am sick and tired of people saying the Punisher is crap. I ask them why it's crap, and they say "Because BoLS says so."

Well, you've simply been talking to the wrong people then. Supposed you asked me, I'd say to you that:

I play a Marine army, and I respect the Punisher. The Punisher (with Hvy. Bolters) can easily wipe out a 5 man combat squad, or put a serious dent in a full 10 man tac squad. The thing can even put the hurt on Terminators, afterall, I've seen Terminators drop to las fire.

Alright, and what can't hurt a 5 man Combat Squad? I'd rather save the 40 odd points that a Punisher costs over a Exterminator if you're looking to cause lots of wounds on an Infantry Squad in Cover.

The Punisher is a must in any tounament list. (in my opinion) It's Ok vs power armoured and high toughness armies, and it's fantastic vs hoard/low save armies. In a All-Commers list, it's versatility makes it a great choice.

Yes, but normal Leman Russes are 20% cheaper, and fantastic against both Hordes and MEQ rather than OK. Extermiantors are OK vs MEQ and fantastic against GEQ, just like the Punisher, but costs a lot less. And both the Russ and the Exterminator can threaten tanks, giving them even more versatility than the Punisher.

No AP you Say? who cares, most your targets are getting a 4+ cover save anyway. Doesn't work against Enemy Armour? guess you will just have to bring another tank, or Hvy. Weapon teams. Oh, you were bringing both those anyway.

So why not buy the Exterminator if you're concerned about cover, so you can have a cheaper tank that can also threaten tanks? Or the Russ who will deny Armor, I'd rather have you getting a 4+ than a 3+... Any bit helps.

It's not that the Punisher is a bad tank on its own. It's just that so many other tanks do the same job for cheaper! So while you may kill 3 Marines per salvo of Punisher fire, a Russ will kill the same amount in cover and twice as much if they're in the open, for less points.

[Chumbalaya]

I am sick and tired of people saying the Punisher is crap. I ask them why it's crap, and they say "Because BoLS says so."

I can assure you, I'll never say anything because BoLS says so lol.

Punisher is fail because of its medium S, short range, low BS, AP- and stupidly high price tag. There are a million better units to field.

I play a Marine army, and I respect the Punisher. The Punisher (with Hvy. Bolters) can easily wipe out a 5 man combat squad, or put a serious dent in a full 10 man tac squad. The thing can even put the hurt on Terminators, afterall, I've seen Terminators drop to las fire.

Who can't kill 5 marines? I've seen Terminators die to lasfire and DPs get gunned down by grots. Does that mean they're good at it? Hell no, they just got lucky. Hoping for godly luck does not make for good strategy.

The Punisher is a must in any tounament list. (in my opinion) It's Ok vs power armoured and high toughness armies, and it's fantastic vs hoard/low save armies. In a All-Commers list, it's versatility makes it a great choice.

No, it's garbage. Any other Russ variant is better.

No AP you Say? who cares, most your targets are getting a 4+ cover save anyway. Doesn't work against Enemy Armour? guess you will just have to bring another tank, or Hvy. Weapon teams. Oh, you were bringing both those anyway.

For the price tag, I expect some versatility.

[Majorcrash]

I agree with most of whats said, i think the punisher would be fun to have but a normal russ is a better buy. But what about the eradicator. WTF is it good for? I built one last year with out knowing, used the extra barrel from the baneblade. If i cant come up with a reason to field it its going to become an extra demolisher.

[Dingareth]

It's great against Tau or Eldar Aspect Warriors and Guardians but really comes into its own against Orks, combined Guard squads and Nids. Ignoring is cover is great when dealing with Conceal or Kustom Force Fields. Killing 10 models in one go when a normal Russ would kill 5 or 6.

[Madjob]

I agree with most of whats said, i think the punisher would be fun to have but a normal russ is a better buy. But what about the eradicator. WTF is it good for? I built one last year with out knowing, used the extra barrel from the baneblade. If i cant come up with a reason to field it its going to become an extra demolisher.

It ignores cover and can fire on the move (unlike the other pie plate in the army that can ignore cover). What more do you want? I love blasting Tau and Eldar with it, it can wipe out entire squads and they can't do a thing about it.

[Kloud]

Well, I'm glad most of you wouldn't just blindly go along with something BoLS says. I'm just saying there are alot of people who really do say "Because BoLS says so."

All I'm saying, is the Punisher is an effective weapon against any troop choice in the game. And with the importance of troop choices in the game, that's nothing to sneer at. The Punishers edge on the other tanks in this capacity, is that it is going to be more consistant barring extremly bad bad dice rolls. The reason I say it would be more consistant, is because of scatter. How often have you seen a template scatter so it hit's 1 guy, or misses all together? or even end up hitting your own stuff? The Punisher is more likely to score a consistant number of wounds everytime it fires.

I'm not saying it's the best tank, all I'm saying is it's not crap, it's not a fail. It is something any General should consider in his army.

And as far as AT goes, Hvy. Weapon Squads with the "Bring It Down" Order, are a better AT choice than most tanks in the IG armoury.

On a side note however, just jamming a single gattling gun in the end of a Leman Russ Turret was pretty weak on GW's part. I do think the Punisher Turret model is pretty weak. I really would have liked to have seen something like what that one super heavy tank has, the one with the twin shortbarelled gattling guns. It would have looked the part alot better.

[Dingareth]

All I'm saying, is the Punisher is an effective weapon against any troop choice in the game.

Oh, ho, ho. Nob Bikers and Plague Marines would like to have a word with you right about now. But let's take a look at the math- which as a Political Science major I hate doing, but let's see if I can still add and subtract:

Paskisher vs 7 Plague Marines

29 S5 shots becomes let's be generous here: 20 hits, and 3 S4 becomes 2 hits.
20 S5 hits becomes 10 wounds and let's say you roll well and those S4 ones score 1.
AP doesn't make a difference here, so you're looking at 11 wounds, so we'll continue on this path of generosity and say 4 saves fail.
But wait! This troop choice has Feel no Pain because it's not strong enough to kill them, so that's actually just 2 wounds.

So, for a dedicated anti-troop unit shooting at the most common troops around here you've kill either 2 Plague Marines or 1 Nob Biker.

This is a 270-300 point tank where as you could get 2 Demolishers for almost that much, guaranteeing that you're looking at as many dead bodies.

So while I agree with you that it isn't completely terrible, and it does have a place in some armies, I'm just trying to show how it is not an effective weapon, at all, against anything, troop or not. Hell, I'd take 5 Chimeras over one- comparable points for 15 S6 AP6 shots over 20 S5 AP- ones.

[Chumbalaya]

Lascannons with BiD <<<<<< meltas, S10 ordnance