Were female Primarchs the next step in the Emperor's plan?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Given how flawed the Primarchs were, Primarchs breeding would probably kill off Mankind and take up ownership of the Imperium, if not enslave them at the least.

[Mr Mystery]

But where did the flaw begin?

Was it nature, or nurture?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Does it matter, in all honesty? The flaws developed, whether it was by birth or by tutelage is irrelevant. Best case scenario is that dynasties of Primarchs form and war amongst other dynasties. Worst is that the Primarchs unify to enslave/overtake Mankind, seeing them as weak and unworthy of protection.

A family of Angrons would not warrant existence.

[Denzark]

I thought the flaws were what happened when Chaos stole the Primarchs away.

I don't consider it to be clear - if he needed only 20 Primarchs for his great plan, then there was no next step - beyond conquer the galaxy and fight chaos. If he needed more, why did he not make 40, 80 at the first step? Only logical thought on this is either - wait and see the first control group of 20 - or that making 20 was such an effort that, after chaos disrupted it, he considered otherwise.

Cos if he could have done it again, why wouldn't have he?

[John Grammaticus]

The length of time each Primarch was exposed to the warp is suggested to have had an influence, in the First Heretic, it says Lorgar was exposed/ held by Chaos for the longest and so became the first to turn traitor (excluding II/ XI Legions).

My thinking: Each Primarch is developed from part of the Emperor so by saying that a Primarch became evil because of his nature is to say that the Emperor is partly evil or conflicted, which goes against the idea of the Emperor as a God. So either the Primarchs fell because the Emperor was partly evil (nature) or because Chaos corrupted them completely (nurture). Equally the Chaos gods gave the Emperor the tools to create the Primarchs so maybe they tricked him into incorporating an evil gland or heresy organ as he was making them (nature). This all relates back to the question of who the Emperor really is, is he God, a very powerful human/ superhuman or even a rebel Chaos God?

As for why only 20 it seems to be suggested that it was about the timing of the Chaos Gods intervention to kidnap the Babymarchs, the technology to shield the development of more Primarchs from the influence of Chaos was lost, much like the gate Magnus broke when he sent his warning that was irreplaceable (The Emperor clearly didn't write down his working when making all these cool toys)

[Psychosplodge]

No, Malcedor while basicly confirming from his statement in whichever book it was that its possible, also essentially confirms the Emperor dismissed the idea as a joke as well.

[m3g4tr0n]

It's literally taken as read that The Primarchs were the be all and end all of the Emperor's genetic tinkering, because that's where he stopped.

What isn't so well discussed is why he stopped. Had he really got to the end of it, or was there more to come?

Imagine Primarchs of both genders, able to birth yet more Primarchs. Can you think of a better Regent for each system than an honest to goodness Primarch?

Males would be easier to start with, to get right, as it would be easier to genewright the same gender as the donor tissue. Females could take a bit longer, as things need to be rekeyed. Yet, Sister of Silence, that many psychic blanks? That to me suggests some level of female super solider plan was under way.

If you add a female primarch, and she ends up attaching herself to a male primarch, will they still be 100% loyal to the Emperor? Doubtful. Horus Heresy aside, the primarch couple would inevitably be less loyal.

[John Grammaticus]

As to the "technical difficulties" of creating female Primarchs, the fact that the Emperor is (presumably) genetically male = XY. Female is XX but even if a foetus has only one X chromosome (XO) it will still develop as a female. Biologically female is the default sex, without a Y chromosome the phenotype (the actual development of the body based on the genotype) is still mainly female. This is also why guys have nipples.

As to reproduction, XO is also known as Turner's syndrome and people with this condition are infertile and only have primitive ovaries. Therefore the Emperor would need to either create a new X chromosome or double up on his single one (which would increase the risk of recessive diseases). Where he would get this from isn't clear as to add in human DNA into the Primarchs would reduce their superhuman-ness. That's all assuming the Emperor and Primarchs are restricted to simple genetics. X chromosomes are far longer than Y chromosomes so it would take some doing to make a new one as the Y chromosome can't simply be modified into an X.

[eldargal]

If you add a female primarch, and she ends up attaching herself to a male primarch, will they still be 100% loyal to the Emperor? Doubtful. Horus Heresy aside, the primarch couple would inevitably be less loyal.

You mean if they add a female primarch and the boys start following her around like little idiot puppies trying to impress her. I also don't see why introducing a female primarch would suddenly make them less loyal, that seem an extremely dubious assumption and I want to see how you support the argument.

[Wolfshade]

Also, they would be brother and sister and that would be weird.