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  1. #21
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    Yeah, make sure you've got lots of LOS blocking terrain. Often as not, when someone is having issue with Tau it's because they're playing on a board with nothing but craters and an aegis defense line.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  2. #22

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    Oddly enough the correct answer to this problem has yet to be posted.

    A game is best described as "an activity that one engages in for amusement."
    Somebody cheesing with 58+ S7 shots at 1850 points is hardly amusing.


    As such the correct response to this situation is "screw you guys, I'm going home.", as in "come up with a real list or find somebody else to play against from now on". I understand that he might be your friend, but this is the kind of list you aren't playing because you like playing the game, it's the kind of list you play because you want a cheap, easy win. Find better friends.

  3. #23
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    Oddly enough, there is more than one way to play and enjoy games like 40k, and assuming your way is the "correct" way is exceptionally arrogant. It's also judgemental and insulting to assume that just because someone plays a cheesy army, they're somehow a bad person and not worth being friends with.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  4. #24

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    Wouldn't Coteaz put some hurt on any unit deep striking in your backfield?

  5. #25

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    I would personally do the boyz horde list as stated above. Your opponent is doing a pretty specialized list so I would respond by bringing 150-180 boyz, warboss, docs, SAG's, a couple of bombers, and depending on the AP on the guns flavor as needed. You said that the list kills 30 boyz a turn, yep no big deal. They will be into combat on turn 3 minus 60 boyz. 90-120 boyz is still going to ruin his day and whatever gets away gets bombed.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theik View Post
    Oddly enough the correct answer to this problem has yet to be posted.

    A game is best described as "an activity that one engages in for amusement."
    Somebody cheesing with 58+ S7 shots at 1850 points is hardly amusing.


    As such the correct response to this situation is "screw you guys, I'm going home.", as in "come up with a real list or find somebody else to play against from now on". I understand that he might be your friend, but this is the kind of list you aren't playing because you like playing the game, it's the kind of list you play because you want a cheap, easy win. Find better friends.
    As previously stated - the gentleman in question bought models based on the aesthetic that he liked - namely he likes the way his paint job looks on the suits, nobody can argue that the suits & new broadsides aren't fantastic models. Also as mentioned, we DO rip on this guy for his list that is generally too hard for a friendly-pick-up game type list, however I for one am not prepared to simply give up. In a pick-up game environment the list is a bit rough, but I attend tournaments & this is not an unreasonable tournament list. It is quite balanced in that its advantages more than make up for its shortcomings. as far as I can tell the only real "hard counter" to this list would be an imperial flyer spam.

    Quote Originally Posted by marful View Post
    Wouldn't Coteaz put some hurt on any unit deep striking in your backfield?
    He could. But for us non-imperial players allying in Coteaz just to put a hurt on some deepstriking battlesuits seems a bit silly.


    As I stated above, I feel my balanced Dark Eldar have a good chance to win this battle - venoms @ 36.1" target crisis suits, Dark lances at 36.1" target tetras & broadsides. Unfortunately, due to the nature of his list construction the game will be my definition of unfun 40K. Namely: deploy, counter-deploy, [turn] shoot [/turn];[turn] shoot [/turn];[turn] shoot [/turn];etc....

    W/ my chaos I'm going to try the Balestar sorc c/w Nurgle oblits & bring the Helbrute formation that gives me a TL:LC c/w 20 meat shields & a 3+ LOS.... Minor change to my list, adding in more long range firepower at a loss of some generally useless cultist bodies; only downside is the loss of the AOBF lord - the Blade of the Relentless just never seems to pay off for me.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theik View Post
    A game is best described as "an activity that one engages in for amusement."
    Somebody cheesing with 58+ S7 shots at 1850 points is hardly amusing.
    1850 is actually a pretty high PV and 58+ S7 shots is perfectly reasonable at this level. There are a host of ways to play from super competitive to full on useless unit fluffy and all are equally valid. Knowing where a game is going to land on this scale lets you adapt your army to the situation and not playing anyone on the spectrum is a missed opportunity. I enjoy the in your face competitive games just as much as the full fluffy ones for very different reasons. So walking away is not a universally good answer by any means.

    Personally I would go full drop pods and try to overwhelm the interceptors. I build a drop list with some max value pods and some very low value pods so I can get ~75% of my full PV on board turn 1.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theik View Post
    Oddly enough the correct answer to this problem has yet to be posted.

    A game is best described as "an activity that one engages in for amusement."
    Somebody cheesing with 58+ S7 shots at 1850 points is hardly amusing.


    As such the correct response to this situation is "screw you guys, I'm going home.", as in "come up with a real list or find somebody else to play against from now on". I understand that he might be your friend, but this is the kind of list you aren't playing because you like playing the game, it's the kind of list you play because you want a cheap, easy win. Find better friends.
    The Eric Cartman answer to problems might appeal to you, but to mature adults it does not. Whether or not a list is too powerful (cheese) or not is entirely subjective. Volume of nasty shooting is all the Tau have. I am not a Tau player. I don't like going up against it. I realize, however, that demanding they gut the only thing they have going for them is tantamount to be being a whiny git who apparently needs help and a handicap to play the game. No thank you. Running away from the problem doesn't seem like an answer to me either, nor a particularly good example of good sportsmanship. Two people acting like jerks hardly improves a situation.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again now. "Don't hate the playa... hate the game." The game is so broken now that they didn't even attempt to fix it. That would have taken real effort. They did, to their credit, do the next best thing. They accepted the fact that they had so broken the game in regards to balance that the only option besides actually fixing it was to open the floodgates. There is cheese for everyone. You can, in fact, use the Tau cheese too. Hell, I'm sure Games Workshop is thrilled when we do. That is the entire idea behind their new marketing plan.

    Tau gun lines have never been easy and they are wicked hard now. Can they be beaten? Sure. I beat one just the other day and it was eerie in its similarity of design to the one discussed here. I had, in fact, played that same list just one weekend before at a different tournament and it damn near tabled me. The difference was simply my choosing not to put much on the table. I dropped and popped. The game reversed and I damn near tabled him. It wasn't even close. Like it or not, we have to adapt to the crazy META garbage possible. Tau who run that gun line are taking a hideous chance. They can't handle multiple Knights fast enough nor can they deal adequately with Drop Pods or Deep Strike armies that come in with nasty fire or flamers (for the Fire Warriors). They have built a one trick pony and it has zero flexibility for dealing with things which are coming to dominate the META.

    People who decry and bemoan tournaments are missing a larger point. I'm bringing it up now because tournaments help self correct against one trick ponies built on such devastating redundancy. A META driven by tournaments tends to liquidate one trick ponies. They might do fine in pick up games against regular opponents, but they do very poorly in events where people are planning for certain key builds. The current builds people plan for are 1. gun lines (like that the Tau create) and 2. Knights and/or Lords of War. If you can't handle these two builds, you will get massacred at tournaments where you are almost certain to see such armies in two out of three of your match ups. I know this is a little tangent, but it bears exploring because the community of broader lists and harsh realities tends to reign in lists like the one mentioned here.

    Returning to your comments, it has been my experience that it is the people who say "screw you guys I'm going home" that end up having a harder time getting games. It rarely has the effect of shaming or forcing your would be opponent into changing his/her list. More often than not they just laugh about your cowardice after you leave and have a long discussion about the cheese they saw in YOUR list. Make no mistake, the cheese was there too. People seem entirely blind to their own cheese while remaining ever vigilante in their mission to spot it in the lists of others. That is the idiotic nature of making such things "subjective" rather than having a game that was balanced in the first place. People who show up to play and who play whomever shows up get games. That is the long and the short of it. People who throw a fit or politely just decline games find they get less games.
    Last edited by Caitsidhe; 07-22-2014 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #29
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    As I stated above, I feel my balanced Dark Eldar have a good chance to win this battle - venoms @ 36.1" target crisis suits, Dark lances at 36.1" target tetras & broadsides.
    Ummm... Dark Lances have a 36" range. Tau eat DE alive. It's not even a game. You can do the fortuned Beastpack, though.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  10. #30

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    sorry - missed this bit 36.1" after nightshields=) This is about the only army they're effective against - unless you want to sit @ 24" to trade single shots out of the raiders from the passengers, never considered putting any upgrades on my raiders before but this list is making me rethink my stance.

    Fortuned Beasts get shredded like space marines - they have to there to do any damage & once they cross into that 30" bubble, the broadsides become twice as effective as they get to add the SMS shots.

    @40Kgamer - what other army can bring this volume of firepower and reslience in a single CAD? The only way AM can do this is with many autocannon heavy weapons squads and those fold like a paper napkin; Eldar CAN do it if they bring 8-9 wave serpents & continue to roll 6's for their serpent shield, eldar don't have access to the massive amounts of interceptor so are significantly more susceptible to deepstriking and if they're brining that number of wave serpents they've really got nothing to deal with AV14. Min-max wave serpents rings in at 1650 points with NO serpent upgrades taking (6) dire avengers & (3) banshees for the cheapest passenger units possible, "upgrading" one or two units of banshees to fire dragons to bust AV14 restricts HQ's & provides obvious target priority
    Last edited by clever handle; 07-23-2014 at 12:00 AM.

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