Knights assaulting through Tank Traps

[Charon]

Stronghold Assault

No, superheavy gives move through cover which also does nothing with impassable terrain.

[marful]

Stronghold Assault

No, superheavy gives move through cover which also does nothing with impassable terrain.

Tank Traps are actually covered (rules wise, not rules for purchasing) in the basic rule book under Battlefield Debris.

[Caitsidhe]

The purchasing of Tank Traps was added to various Fortifications in Stronghold Assault. 15pts each, 6" long with no specifications given on depth, so in theory they can't be more than 6" long in any dimension.

[Tynskel]

Ah, well, since the moderators closed the thread, but allowed this one (which is the same argument from before), I'll take it as a signal that I may contribute to this discussion.

"Counts as", has consistently been applied to the rules for the past 20 years to mean "is".

The Walker is 'counts as' infantry for the purposes of moving. Therefore, in the movement phase, the walker is no longer a vehicle—it is infantry. How is this the case? There is not a single rule that a walker follows that is in the vehicle section during movement. In other words: a walker ceases to be a vehicle, for the movement phase.

Someone brought up that the argument that means you could embark upon a vehicle/building. No. There are other rules beyond the movement phase that apply to embarked units (this is what I mean by 'reading all of the rules'). Vehicles are prohibited by those rules, of which a Walker reverts back to being a vehicle once the movement has been completed—therefore, you cannot embark/disembark, unless there is an explicit exception (Stormravens come to mind).

So back to Tank Traps:

tank traps are impassable for vehicles, and infantry move as normal.
Look up impassable—impassable is only invoked during any type of movement. A walker is infantry, and does not apply.
Infantry move as normal—when you look up rules for moving your infantry, the infantry are still encumbered by terrain, dependent upon it's size, shape, etc.

So, now we look at the shape of the Tank Traps. If they are 100% flat, infantry just move right on through as nothing is there. If Tank Traps are just large objects, infantry move as normal, if they can fit their bases in between the large objects. If the Tank Traps are closely packed, that means the infantry are encumbered. If the Tank Traps are closely packed, and infantry cannot stand on them (i.e., non-wobbly model situation, but an 'impassable' terrain situation), then the terrain becomes impassable to infantry. This is all dictated in the terrain section of the rules.

I have stated before: terrain is subjective. The construction of the piece of terrain actually changes how you would use the terrain. Everyone knows this. If tank traps were set up as a flat wall that was 6" tall, you would use this as an LoS blocker as well as a Tank Trap—only terrain has this level of subjectivity.

Tank Traps, at a minimum, grant the rules that are stated in the profile. That is only a minimum.

[Charon]

Someone brought up that the argument that means you could embark upon a vehicle/building. No. There are other rules beyond the movement phase that apply to embarked units (this is what I mean by 'reading all of the rules'). Vehicles are prohibited by those rules, of which a Walker reverts back to being a vehicle once the movement has been completed

It is no vehicle by your interpretation and so may enter. He would be illegal AFTER movement phase but that isnt covered in the rules.
The next question would be "is he considered no vehicle in the assault phase?" If he is he may not charge through the traps. If he is not, my emp stuff on overwatch would have no effect, as it is no vehicle.

Your interpretation causes a lot more issues than it solves and contradicts itself a lot.

[Anggul]

The Walker is 'counts as' infantry for the purposes of moving. Therefore, in the movement phase, the walker is no longer a vehicle—it is infantry. How is this the case? There is not a single rule that a walker follows that is in the vehicle section during movement. In other words: a walker ceases to be a vehicle, for the movement phase.

Here's where your logic doesn't really make sense. The rules say that it moves like infantry yes, but they don't change it's unit type at all. Even if we said that it gained 'infantry' as a type, it would still also be a walker and a vehicle. It doesn't matter that the walker doesn't follow the rules for movement in the vehicle section, it's still a vehicle. Also of note is that 'moving' covers any movement including running and consolidating, not just in the movement phase. It's unit type never changes.

[Caitsidhe]

"Counts as", has consistently been applied to the rules for the past 20 years to mean "is".

There are several problems with your argument, not the least of which is Walkers don't say "counts as" anywhere. Even if they did, your assertion of how it has worked for the last twenty years is not backed by rules but by your personal interpretation of the last twenty years. This is what the rules actually say:

MOVING WALKERS
Walkers move using the movement rules for Infantry. They can move 6" in the Movement
phase, Run in the Shooting phase, and charge in the Assault phase, just as Infantry can.
Difficult terrain affects Walkers just as it does Infantry, and only counts as dangerous terrain
if it would do so for Infantry. If Walkers fail a Dangerous Terrain test, they are Immobilised.
Unlike Infantry, a Walker has a facing, which influences where it can fire (see right) and its
Armour Value when fired at.

As you can see above, it enumerates EXACTLY what using the movement rules for Infantry entails. It specifically addresses dangerous terrain, as well as being immobilized by it when they fail a check since as they remain vehicles. What it doesn't do, however, is change the vehicle type. There is no mention of it getting to ignore impassible terrain created by it being a vehicle. Until a Faq/Errata comes out that alters the rules as written, Walkers do no more and no less than what is listed above.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Vehicle, Walker comes up against Tank Trap, which is Battlefield Debris.

This is not difficult nor dangerous terrain, but Impassable.

At no point does the Vehicle, Walker become infantry. Therefore, Tank Traps are impassable.

Seriously, has nobody emailed GW on this one? I know it's obvious as the rules are all there, but sheesh....

[This Dave]

Yup.

Vehicle, Walker comes up against Tank Trap, which is Battlefield Debris.

This is not difficult nor dangerous terrain, but Impassable.

At no point does the Vehicle, Walker become infantry. Therefore, Tank Traps are impassable.

Seriously, has nobody emailed GW on this one? I know it's obvious as the rules are all there, but sheesh....

Has anyone gotten anything other than a form letter as a response to rules questions back from GW lately?

[daboarder]

considering their FAQs currently amount to 1 random question being answered every 2-3 months....probably not