there are no wolves on fenris

[Tyrsday]

In the Unremembered Empire, Guilliman muses on the fact that both the coincidences of the various Primarchs home worlds and how they suited that Primarch so well and The Emperor himself are too perfect to have been coincidences and The Emperor being the perfect being that he is would have had the foresight to want battle tested and forged generals rather than cookie cutter officers, but I have my own separate theory about Guilliman having Aspergers so take that with a grain of salt.

As far as the Terran marines being concerned, the rune priest, "Longfang," was a Terran, one of the last and one of the oldest, in Prospero Burns and he was subject to the effects of the Canis Helix, being long in the fang and the yellowing of the eyes and hardening of the skin. The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination also mentions that, along with the Salamanders and Alpha Legion, the Space Wolves were part of a secret project called the Trefoil that further differentiated them from the other legions. Also, somewhere someone responded to "There are no wolves on Fenris," with "Because they're all in space," but I can't recall who.

[Chris22]

As I understand it, Magnus had traveled back in time through the warp and had seen Fenris when it had first been colonized. To survive the harsh conditions, some of the early human colonists voluntarily or involuntarily evolved into wolves. Thus all the "wolves" on Fenris are actually descendants of humans and are not true wolves.

Furthermore, many of the Space Wolf Aspirants can't handle the effect of the gene seed and the Canis Helix and mutate into full blown wolves as well.

So all the "wolves" are former humans or failed Aspirants. It may also mean that the still human population of Fenris has also evolved slightly and they may all possess canine DNA. Thus, the entire population of Fenris and the Battle Brothers of the the Space Wolves may all be mutants.

[JimmyWolf]

Personally, and I say personally with as much emphasis as I can because I've seen this become a surprisingly touchy subject in the past, Magnus is just being either pedantic or demeaning.

If they really are mutated humans that are now wolves his point is one designed to inflame feelings of hatred against the Space Wolves in his own Legion, not a statement of fact. He is trying to childishly score points by facetiously attacking at least 10,000 years of poor choices. I'm sure the Space Wolves could easily respond "Well there aren't any humans in the Thousands Suns" since most are now ash. But thats all it would be, a childish insult, not meant to be taken as a statement that has gained the level of interest it has.

Think about it, if we take it literally by Magnus' logic, there are no humans on Earth. Why? Because our DNA mutated from apes at some point in the unknown past. Acceleration of that process through manipulation does not make the result any less valid. So there are Wolves on Fenris now, whether or not there were ever supposed to be.

The second point is one of being deliberately demeaning. It's important to note context, Magnus' legion has been hounded by the Wolves since before the Heresy, and while I'm not entirely sure which book this appears in I'm pretty sure it's after the events of Prospero. He has, on a number of occasions, referred to them as "dogs", "lapdogs of the Emperor", "damned Wolves" etc and while this statement is not one he has repeated in the same way, it can easily be interpreted as just another insult. They aren't Wolves, they're dogs, cowards and suck-ups to the failures of the Emperor, never questioning orders or thinking about anything other than fighting, ale or heritage. He may even have been referring to someone questioning him on dealing with "the Wolves" when they're clearly talking about the Chapter, not the animal, making this point more likely. More of the quote would be helpful here.

Again, personally, even as a Space Wolves player and Thousands Sons sympathiser (if I played CSM I would play TS) I've always found it weird that people take this as though it's some sort of amazing mystery that demands hours of discussion. I've always interpreted it as another insult and nothing more.

[Charon]

There is a third point and I think this is the point Magnus is refering too. The warp. There are no wolves to him as they wolves do not have wolf souls but human souls. Sure it is meant as an insult too (as the space puppies do know that the people of their homeworld and their own geneseed is capable of degenerating them into wolflike beasts) but I almost sure he meant the spirit/souls. Iirc he also told Ahriman to "look at them".

[Meph]

Interesting viewpoints all. What I picked up 'from the 'There are no wolves on Fenris' statement was that it's about perception, and how things seem to be. The Fenrisian wolves aren't 'true' wolves (i.e. Canis Canis) from Terra because they were genetically modified long ago in Fenris' past, they're different animals. Just as the Space Wolves seem to be brainless barbarians held on a leash and blindly obedient when unleashed. While the Vylka Fenryka are cunning, capable warriors, using their barbaric image as a tactical tool, but also capable of patient and controlled actions.
In short, never judge a book by it's cover.


And my perspective on the Canis Helix is that it comes from Leman Russ, and not from the Fenrisian humans, as it's generally implied in the lore that the Astartes inherit most their genetic traits from the geneseed, and most of their character from their homeworld. It's also hinted at that the powers of Chaos may have tampered with the Primarchs' genes during their theft and dispersion from Terra. Sanguinius being the most obvious example by his wings. Magnus probably lost his eye and got his powers tweaked, Corax & Vulcan got their pigment mutation, Russ got his beast-gene, etc... While the Emperor envisioned a different role for each of the Primarch, I doubt that entailed such severe physical mutations as his vision entails a 'perfect' humainity.

Anyway, that's my mumbling-over-a-pint-rave.

[Just_Me]

The second point is one of being deliberately demeaning. It's important to note context, Magnus' legion has been hounded by the Wolves since before the Heresy, and while I'm not entirely sure which book this appears in I'm pretty sure it's after the events of Prospero.

The most notable exchange where this phrase was used actually took place during a (relatively) friendly pseudo-philosophical discussion involving Magnus, Ahriman and representatives of the Space Wolves (or to give them their own name, Vlka Fenryka). The conversation is recounted in "A Thousand Sons" and predated the burning of Prospero by an undetermined number of years, and in fact even predated Nikea. It should also be noted that at the time there WAS friction between the two Legions but Magnus personally viewed the Wolves as being kindred spirits in some way, what with their prolific use of Rune Priest psykers and shamanistic techniques of using/warding Warp energies. In fact, if I recall correctly he repeatedly counseled his sons throughout that book not to underestimate the Wolves and not to be taken in by what he regarded as a facade of savage primitivism, and it seems that he regarded them as having a very deep but unscientific understanding of the Warp. Taken in this light his statement might more appropriately be read as a). a typical example of Magnus just bursting to let everyone know that he knows things, and b). a veiled effort to reach out to the Wolves and establish common ground (given his own Legion's struggles with genetic stability).

As for the curious coincidence of the various Primarch suitability to their worlds we will probably never have a clear answer, but we do have several facts to build upon. As per "Deliverance Lost" we know that the unique genetic manipulations of each Primarch (including the splicing of non-human DNA elements) was present from inception at the hand of the Emperor. In addition, in the same novel we see that the Emperor had at some time constructed "Primarch scaled" living quarters for all 20 of his sons in the Imperial Palace but that they had gone unused and unknown (Corax speculates that they were where he and his brothers were supposed to be raised). As per the aforementioned "A Thousand Sons" we know that the Canis Helix is NOT something unique to the Wolves Geneseed, but rather present in the populace of Fenris as a result of ancient genetic manipulation by human settlers during the Dark Age of Technology (not at all surprising as it seems like this sort of thing was relatively commonplace at the time, leading to the various abhumans and the Navigators among others). The similar lupine characteristics of Terran Space Wolves could be explained by the action of the Omophagea implant which allows an Astartes to integrate basic knowledge/information by eating the flesh of an organism and absorbing and interpreting genetic material (scientifically this is WAY out there in fringe biology but there have been some recent findings which weirdly imply it might not be complete bull****). If Terran-born Astartes consumed the flesh of some of manipulated organisms in ecosystem of Frenris it MIGHT have had the effect of "grafting" the Canis Helix into their genetic makeup, particularly if they ate the flesh of Fenrisian "wolves."

Those are facts, now we get into speculation. In the dream/vision experienced by Horus in the Davinite Lodge after his injury in "False Gods" he is shown the actual events of the abduction and scattering of the Primarchs, during which the Emperor attempts to intervene then think better of it and allows matters to take their course. The actual literal truth of these events is suspect as the Dark Gods were using this experience to manipulate Horus, however none of the other visions he was shown (e.g. a view of the Imperium of 41st Millennium) were discernibly untrue, just provided out of context. The whole thing is rather like the self-fulfilling prophesy in Macbeth which causes Macbeth to take actions which bring it about, actions he almost certainly would NOT have taken if he had never heard the prophesy; Horus is shown one possible vision of the repercussions of his rebellion out of context which prompts him to act and actually bring that eventuality about (ironically, if the Ruinous Powers sought outright victory in the Heresy they might have actually been somehow taken in by their own ploy and prompted a 10,000 year stalemate). Next, Guilliman's aforementioned musings (Either in "Know no Fear" or "Unremembered Empire") that the Primarchs collective suitability to the worlds where they arrived was too coincidentally perfect to be anything but contrived and his speculation that it was the Emperor who was responsible. Finally, in "Scars" Magnus' shade alludes to the fact that there was some element of control/manipulation in where the Primarchs ended up, to the point that certain of them were "meant" to go to different places but that undefined "entities" intervened and altered some of their arrivals.

This suggests to me at least one of three things; the Emperor always intended to scatter them but the Chaos Powers preempted him, the Chaos Powers intended to scatter them to confound the Emperor but he intervened enough to manipulate where they ended up to suit his plans/their natures, or that the Chaos Powers intended to scatter them but fell to infighting about where to send them and certain among them changed the intended plan to suit their own goals. Personally I think the weight of evidence seems to come down on the second scenario; that the Ruinous Powers scattered them to screw up the Emperor's plans but that he didn't let them have all their own way. There is also another possibility that has long occurred to me, based on the fact that the Warp and Realspace seem to resonate with each other with like calling to like in symbolic/metaphysical ways. This has the effect of placing odd and idiosyncratic limits and boundaries their interactions. For instance the Powers of the Warp can't just punch holes into Realspace wherever and whenever they want, certain conditions have to be met first, Khorne can initiate incursions at points where violence is rampant (more specifically violence for its own sake rather than to achieve a goal), Slaanesh where acts of wanton debauchery have taken place, etc. Certain regions/places seem to be more vulnerable than others simply because the boundaries between dimensions are naturally thin there. All of this speculation is a long way of explaining my personal thought that maybe the Ruinous Powers could ONLY send the Primarchs to worlds which specifically resonated with their nature/attributes/potential.

So the short version is; there are no wolves on Fenris because the "wolves" are humans/astartes succumbed to atavistic genetic expression of their own manipulated DNA, Magnus is a know-it-all who likes to show off from time to time, and the Primarchs didn't end up where they did by accident.