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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Y

    Hobbies ain't cheap. Really not sure why some feel they should be.\
    And your point is?

    the "hobbies aren't cheap" line doesn't mean that people aren't allowed to make an objective decision about the value of the hobby, nor does it provide compelling evidence for why they should not accept alternatives to a hobby that is clearly not within their concept of value for money.

    By the same morality that is often used to defend the actions of GW it is within the morality of the consumer to evaluate, decide and act upon what is best for them.

    EDIT: And thats not even going into the fallacy that a luxury product should be reserved for only the top percentage spenders of the consumer community.
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  2. #22

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    Nice selective quoting, no doubt to try and provoke an argument.

    At no point did I say people aren't entitled to make up their own mind. I even included an example of how one might apply a form of objectivity to an entirely subjective matter.

    And I totally agree. If you don't find it good value, you don't find it good value. Nobody can set a figure on when anything becomes good value. What I do wish is that those who feel the prices aren't for them wouldn't keep bringing it up in unrelated discussion. I honestly do not care one iota who can or cannot afford/justify spending on the hobby.

    Now as for your fallacy, when exactly was that brought up? Oh of course, it wasn't. Just another erroneous thing thrown out to try to provoke a flamefest.
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  3. #23

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    I don't *like* the price. I wish everything - everything! - was cheaper. But in terms of what I get out of it - reading the books, building models, thinking up background, painting, playing games, writing campaigns - I'm willing to keep paying. I just think harder about what I want these days.
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'nSmurfs View Post
    I don't *like* the price. I wish everything - everything! - was cheaper. But in terms of what I get out of it - reading the books, building models, thinking up background, painting, playing games, writing campaigns - I'm willing to keep paying. I just think harder about what I want these days.
    Ditto.

    I bought my first models in over a year this month. I've kept up with the various rule books, because I like to do that. But this month, £155 spent on Stormclaw and Badrukk's Flashgitz, with the Space Woofs going to a friend for £30, meaning I've spent £125 total.

    I just don't understand price being an argument point. You can, you can't, you do, you don't. You will, you won't. That's it. Can't argue someone's money into or out of their wallet. It's not possible.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Nice selective quoting, no doubt to try and provoke an argument.
    Hardly, just pointing out that the idea that a "hobby" cannot be subject to inflated prices because it is a hobby, is wrong.

    Honestly its just what I latched onto and could be bothered responding too. nothing personal or unessecarily argumentative
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    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  6. #26

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    I think we can all agree that the hobby being cheaper would be a very nice thing, but I personally feel that there's value for money in most of the models, though I personally have yet to buy a 7th Rulebook as I'm waiting on getting a mini one for cheap off EBay, (hopefully.)

    All I have to buy is paints and models, which I can pace out enough to be not much more than what I spend on alcohol in a month.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeGrunt View Post
    I think we can all agree that the hobby being cheaper would be a very nice thing, but I personally feel that there's value for money in most of the models, though I personally have yet to buy a 7th Rulebook as I'm waiting on getting a mini one for cheap off EBay, (hopefully.)

    All I have to buy is paints and models, which I can pace out enough to be not much more than what I spend on alcohol in a month.
    If you define cheap as £20.....PM me.
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  8. #28
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    The US prices are actually about what I feel GW stuff is worth. Pity I'm in Australia and have to pay double that. Which is why I rarely buy anything any more. (Please don't tell me to use [US seller], the discount is more than cancelled out by the blasted shipping for every one I've checked.)
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    If you define cheap as £20.....PM me.
    PM'd, because yes that is cheap!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgrim View Post
    The US prices are actually about what I feel GW stuff is worth. Pity I'm in Australia and have to pay double that. Which is why I rarely buy anything any more. (Please don't tell me to use [US seller], the discount is more than cancelled out by the blasted shipping for every one I've checked.)
    That sucks man, though my friend who worked in an engineering company in Aus for a year or two says that's the trend in general there. (We frigging wept at his description of $12 pints and other such travesties.)
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    You should try LARPing.....£70ish an event, plus getting there and back, easily £600 on gear (need to replace my trousers. Went all slippy following a polearm upside the head, and split last pair!).
    My wife and I do LARP. What stuns us is the prices you just quoted. It costs us $5.00 American to attend one here in the States. You guys are sure conditioned to hand over large sums of money. How many people attend your LARP events versus what it costs to rent the hall? I'm just fascinated by the economics of this weirdness.

    Hobbies ain't cheap. Really not sure why some feel they should be.
    Lots of hobbies are cheap. Some are expensive. Some are middle of the road. The issue for Games Workshop is that they think THEY are the hobby. They aren't the hobby. They are merchants who service the hobby. It is their belief that they themselves are the hobby that is the heart of things.

    Though it is all about value, which is of course entirely subjective.
    It isn't subjective. They are merchants. There is nothing subjective about the price people are willing to pay and the price they will not. You keep wanting to wax philosophical about something that isn't the least bit philosophical. They are merchants who were pretty much alone in the market as far as real peers and competitors. The situation is changing and technology is not working in their favor. They want to charge a certain amount based on their original business model. We are starting to see that failure to adapt that model isn't working. Rather than change the price point or design aspect of their game, they have decided to restructure everything else (reduction in labor, direct sales, etc.). Historically, these options are rather hit or miss when it comes to creating a turnaround. When such steps are successful they are always tied to other larger changes in the business model which Games Workshop is not doing. If I were to bet on the outcome based on precedent, I would say that they haven't reached rock bottom yet, but they will before they embrace the changes that they need. I suppose it will really depend on the rest of the Board (the same people who have privately invited Kirby to step down) and whom is hired to be the new CEO. They will either hire a "yes man" and the pattern will continue and worsen, or they will hire someone who will look the Board in the eye and tell them, "you hired me to do a job now shut the hell up and let me do it. Your only important contribution to this was hiring me."

    To work this out, I have a very rough calculation. Take the total cost of your current project, including the requisite rulebooks, paints etc. Then, work out/estimate how many hours you actively spend, or are likely to spend on that over a year. This would include everything from playing, assembling the models, painting the models, even writing lists. Take the money spent, and divide by the hours of activity to get an hourly cost. Then compare that hourly cost to other stuff you like to do.
    This is interesting and all that but it still comes down to a weird, pointless analysis. People either are willing to pay or they are not. Right now, as far as GW is concerned, the days when they were going to pay to sustain past numbers are over. The little paragraph you gave above is almost exactly like the line people selling "Time Shares" give.

    It's very rough I know, but it does throw a bit of perspective into a highly subjective area.
    Your perspective being "cough it up people, it is a seller's market?" The problem is that it isn't a seller's market. It is a buyer's market.

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