Assault ramps on a flyer

[Ravingbantha]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed before, sometimes my nerd-fu is weak. But what is the point to a flyer being an assault vehicle? A flyer starts in reserve, so comes in turn 2 at best. However units cannot assault the turn they arrive from reserve. So bringing in your flying transport and deploying your assault troops in the same turn just won't happen. You can drop them off and let them charge next turn, but that defeats the purpose of assault vehicles. Or you can hang out in a holding pattern and hope your opponent doesn't focus on your flyer penata waiting to see goodies fall out.

So am I missing something? I've never used an assault flyer before, as my wolves are just now learning to fly.

[Wolfshade]

No, that has summed it up fairly well.

Only you don't need to disembark when you arrive you can move in the flyer and assault from that, protecting the cargo from shooting.

[daboarder]

there is also the skyshield...

[CoffeeGrunt]

If it's not an Assault Vehicle, you can't Charge the turn they exit it anyway. So you'd Fly in Turn 2, get out Turn 3, and Charge Turn 4.

The last one or two Turns are theoretical, because you'd have to be playing a very crappy opponent for there to be anything left to charge after two turns of waiting...

[Kevlarshark]

Actually it seems like the transport version has an assault ramp, the one with the massive coldcannon only has a rear hatch...

Seems the designers are very against assaults where your opponent has no reasonable chance to react. So no assaulting out of pods, outflank, infiltrate, deepstrike or flyers arriving that turn from reserve.

I think now with overwatch (and variable charge length) assaulting the turn you arrive is not as potentially powerful as it once was. Then again when you could appear then assault it was very frustrating for your opponent who usually ended up with his backfield support units in Combat with your assault elements without you having to go through the tactical process of avoiding incoming fire and position them for a charge. Just appear assault.

But if you think assaulting out of a flyer is hard to pull off, try assaulting out of a Rhino!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Given that Dirge Casters exist, a Chaos army could tear through a CQC-incompetent armies' lines without any hope of reacting. I'm not sure how people are still seeing Overwatch as enough to stop, say, a squad of Khorne Beserkers all on its own.

[Caitsidhe]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed before, sometimes my nerd-fu is weak. But what is the point to a flyer being an assault vehicle? A flyer starts in reserve, so comes in turn 2 at best. However units cannot assault the turn they arrive from reserve. So bringing in your flying transport and deploying your assault troops in the same turn just won't happen. You can drop them off and let them charge next turn, but that defeats the purpose of assault vehicles. Or you can hang out in a holding pattern and hope your opponent doesn't focus on your flyer penata waiting to see goodies fall out.

So am I missing something? I've never used an assault flyer before, as my wolves are just now learning to fly.

Your Nerd-Fu isn't that off. You are discerning the built it foolishness of Assault planes. The option to start on the board with a Skyshield helps offset this a "little bit," but overall they are not effective at delivering troops. Nothing that comes from reserves is particularly good for assault because most games are 5-6 Turns long. The math is brutal. Consider:

1. Coming in from reserves the furthest your plane can off load troops is a mere 6" in. It would have to choose to arrive via Hover rather than Zoom and said troops could still NOT assault because they arrived from reserves.

2. Coming in Zoom the plane can be 36" forward but the troops can't get out (short of some deepstrike option from the plane).

3. A plane starting on the table could be full deployment forward on the Skyshield and then get another 6" from that before disembarking. This is hardly worth anything since ground troops can walk that far.

The current rules, which were dutifully and painfully NOT TESTED worth spit make very little sense. In general, with Games Workshop, the better you are supposed to be in the "fluff" at Assault, the less effective you will be at it on the table. Assault vehicles tend to be the least efficient way of getting people across the table. Most of the issue stems from the restriction of not being able to offload if the vehicle has moved more than 6". No matter how you slice your bread, you are looking at Turn 3-4 for your first assault when coming from Reserve. If you start troops on the table, on foot or in a land based assault vehicle, you can (if not blown off the table before reaching the target) assault far earlier.

[Tynskel]

The rules are fine.
They are designed to prevent cheese on a cheese board, and do that quite well.

There has to be risks. If you want to charge out of your flyer, your flyer has to be moving slow enough (i.e. hover) so it is dangerous for the vehicle.
Nothing wrong with that.

Considering Stormravens have a solid amount of hull points, they can work. Like all aspects of the game, you need to give your opponent something else to shoot at the turn you hover.

[Ravingbantha]

The problem is in a real scenario, your opponent is going to find ways to surprise you. There are times you won't have a chance to react. There is none of this in the game, I guess its a matter of opinion. I love surprises, having to react to an unexpected situation. For me this creates the greatest challenge and thus the most fun.

Right now its "I have a transport flyer in reserve, your turn. Now my flyer is on the table, your turn. Now I land and charge you, surprise!!! Bet you never saw that coming did you?"

[Caitsidhe]

The rules are fine.
They are designed to prevent cheese on a cheese board, and do that quite well.

Actually the rules are designed to encourage large armies that sit on either side of the board and shoot at each other, i.e. a higher model count.

There has to be risks. If you want to charge out of your flyer, your flyer has to be moving slow enough (i.e. hover) so it is dangerous for the vehicle.

There are no risks because there are not people doing it. Since the dawn of 6th Edition (and continuing until now) I've seen only ONE plane successfully deliver a cargo of assault troops. This is because it doesn't work and most people don't try.

Nothing wrong with that.

There is nothing wrong with it, no. People just don't use them as they are billed. There is a lot of humor in it though, i.e. that assault vehicles are never used as such because of they are utter garbage at doing it.

Considering Stormravens have a solid amount of hull points, they can work. Like all aspects of the game, you need to give your opponent something else to shoot at the turn you hover.

Again, no they don't work. They will never work. You appear to have missed the brutal timing and math aspect. If you use them to deliver your expensive, quality assault troops you are ensuring that a significant portion of your army will NOT get into combat sooner than the 3rd or 4th Turn (when the game is already half or more than half over). If you are invested in winning the game via assault, this is tantamount to setting a bomb with only a thirty second timer and you have ten stories of stairs to go down before you can get out of the blast radius.