BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

View Poll Results: Are navigators psykers?

Voters
58. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    50 86.21%
  • No.

    8 13.79%
  • I'm not sure...explain below.

    0 0%
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32
  1. #21

    Default

    I'd say they are, but they're also too far removed from any kind other kind of psychic that it makes sense to just consider them as not.

    Nope, that was a **** up by Ian Watson In the Dracco books. Everywhere else states otherwise.
    Technically no. The Inquisition trilogy was written around 25 years ago, way before any other 40k novel. The inconsistencies in those books are more because there was nothing to be consistent with when they were written.

  2. #22

    Default

    Psycher, just a diferent type. Astropath's and grey Knights are both psychers, but different at the same time.

  3. #23
    Chaplain
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joosterandom View Post
    I'd say they are, but they're also too far removed from any kind other kind of psychic that it makes sense to just consider them as not.



    Technically no. The Inquisition trilogy was written around 25 years ago, way before any other 40k novel. The inconsistencies in those books are more because there was nothing to be consistent with when they were written.
    The first book of the Inquisition Trilogy was released in 1990.
    And whilst there may not have been a great deal released at that time, perhaps he could have at least had some consistency with the original source material which had been published some three years before in Rogue Trader and which presumably he'd read.

  4. #24

    Default

    In short- yes, they are. But it's not that simple; a navigator is a very specific, very specialized type of psyker that has the ability to look at a much broader picture. A psyker, specifically, is a front line, immediate weapon. But they are both technically in the same category

  5. #25
    Chaplain
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    457

    Default

    Well to keep us current, a bloke just posted this to the BOLS facebook post:

    [url]http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/N/Navigator.pdf[/url]

    Some excerpts:

    Unit
    Composition
    •1ExpeditionaryNavigator

    UnitType
    •Infantry(Character)

    Wargear
    •Archaeotech pistol
    •Close combat weapon
    •Refractor field
    •Ætherlabe staff

    Special Rules
    •Navigator Powers
    •Fear
    •Independent Character
    Notice any characteristic missing?

    It then goes on to to say:

    Navigator Powers
    Navigators have a range of powers, one of which may be attempted in the phase indicated so long as the Navigator is not engaged in an assault. These powers do not count as Psychic Powers and the Navigator does not use Warp Charge points or have access to any Psychic Disciplines.
    Hah hah! Case closed...

    ...

    ...
    However, the Navigator does count as a Psyker for the purposes of rules that work against Psykers, such as Hatred (Psykers) or weapons that have additional rules against Psykers. In order to use a Navigator power, the Navigator must make a Leadership test. If the test is passed, the chosen power is used as described. If the test is failed, the power is not used and the Navigator and their unit is Pinned (though they do not Go to Ground)
    Well damnit. That is about as clear as mud. As I said before, I think that a case could certainly be made that they are a *type* of Psyker if far removed from what we usually think of. That said, GW wants to leave this one obfuscated for now...

  6. #26

    Default

    When I think of navigators, the one that comes to mind immediately is Eurydice Marvellion / Octavia from the Soul Hunter series. In particular, I remember one scene where Ruven (the resident Chaos Sorcerer) makes a mental comment to the effect that he can do with force of will the kind of stuff that Octavia can only do through a genetic fluke. And of course, there's that whole sector-wide psychic screech stunt that Talos pulls by exploiting and weaponizing Octavia's navigator's eye. So strictly speaking, I would say yes, Navigators are psykers, and yes, they can be dangerous. They just usually aren't. Even in that psychic screech event listed above, no one in-universe had ever heard of or even thought of using a navigator in such a way.

    If you're talking rules, I would probably say no. After all, by a strict definition of "psyker", every last Eldar, be they Guardian, Aspect Warrior, Ranger, Harlequin (maybe; don't entirely remember how they work) and so on is a psyker. They just aren't trained with their powers in such a way that (1) they could use them in combat, or (2) that their aptitude for psychic powers could make them particularly vulnerable to anti-psyker shenanigans (Perils of the Warp, Culexus Assassins, Shadow in the Warp, etc...). They might be annoyed or aggravated, but nothing so reliably lethal that it can't just be represented by a particularly bad string of luck on one's to-hit rolls.

  7. #27

    Default

    I think a distinction needs to be made by whether or not you mean in-game or in-fluff.

    First off we also need to have some kind of working definition of a psyker, as the fluff has well established that manifest in a myriad of ways. A basic definition might be "anyone/thing who/that harnesses, uses, accesses or views the warp through some means related to their body and/or mind rather than technology."

    Under this definition (supported by referral evidence form the fluff that actually names them as such) Navigators are Psykers. They've been specifically bred to carry a special type of mutation that makes them such.

    There are functionally only two sources of psyker power among humans: Mutation and granting of the power by a greater Warp entity (Emperor included). Saying that they are mutants has no bearing on whether or not they are psykers.

    In game, the rules tell you fair and square they count as psykers, it's just that their powers were crunch wise designed to be more consistent and also the fact that 30k falls under 6th ed rules technically, they simply bothered to delineate the fact that you don't use them in the psychic phase. Don't confuse expedient crunch for canon lore.

  8. #28
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Knoxville, Tennessee, United States
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    We could also get into the weirdness of whether sorcerers are psykers too, since they affect the warp through ritual and pact instead of innate ability.

  9. #29

    Default

    They are sanctioned psykers. It is all over the fluff...

  10. #30
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Knoxville, Tennessee, United States
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    I think you may be confusing them with Astropaths.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •