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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by silashand View Post
    The Sisters were never linked to the Inquisition originally. The reason they added them to the Witchhunters book was because the design team at the time was infatuated with the then new =I= game (this from an interview that I attended at GD back when DH/WH were released). Some time after that I think it was Jervis who said they should probably not have included them because they were Ecclesiarchy forces, not Inquisition ones and the plan was to fix it some time in the future. Unfortunately for the ladies they never got around to doing a proper codex for them, instead just publishing a craptastic PDF and the lame e-codex they have now .
    This has nothing to do with my post you quoted. You are referring to a later development. Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Assassins, Inquisitors, and Arbites all used to got in the same list of random units you could ally with your forces. That was their job, their purpose. At the tail end of 2nd the Sisters branch off. I think then it's Assassins and then you start seeing Grey Knights with power armor and storm bolters, that's when Sisters get rolled back in with inquisitors for reasons. If anything that wasn't a Grey Knight was added to the Daemon Hunters book it's because it was anemic. Nothing was shoe horned in and the only thing preventing it from being an update of Agents of the Imperium proper was the exclusion of Sisters and the fancy shotgun rules of the Arbites.
    That exclusion would have sucked, but they put a TON of new stuff in the book. Death cult assassins, daemonhosts, henchmen of every make and model, power armoured Grey Knights (with a ton of new special rules). We even got options that weren't bolter-on-a-stick.

  2. #142
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    It has everything to do with your post. Sisters, the Inquisition, Assassins, Grey Knights, etc, have no reason to be shoved into the same one or two sources for the sake of tradition when in the fluff the faction often have little or nothing to do with each other, especially when placing them in the same faction forces you to play them together when, again, they are often completely independent entities. They absolutely, unquestionably, 100% deserve to be able to be taken independently of each other. So, sure, go ahead and criticize the prices or the quality of the rules in the books, GW absolutely deserves that, but whining about how everything is getting split up when it should be split up is silly.

    BTW, before complaining about how you can't run stuff at tournaments because "two sources" is the standard set by Frontline Gaming with the LVO/BAO and most tournaments are following their lead, this is still early 7th. Things are very much in flux, and I know Reece and Frankie are very open to the idea of tweaking the format to accommodate things like Assassins in, say, an IG army with allied Space Marines, or something similar. That front will sort itself out.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    Assassins aren't actually part of the Inquisition, either. They're commanded directy by the high lords of terra.

    They were originally in the same codex because they were an eclectic mix half dozen disparate forces that just didn't fit anywhere else, so they all got put in one place. Which was better than nothong, but meant if you wanted to play an Assassin, you were forced to take Grey Knights or something. The ability to use an Inquisitor was extremely limited.

    Now, though, you can stick an assassin in any army you want, just like you should be able to. Grey Knights actually have their own codex, instead of being forced to share with roommates. This is how it should be set up, not that these still don't seem to be lazy copy-pastes.
    I second this.

    Spending money for a copy paste is annoying, but what really needed to be fixed? Its not like the Tyranid codex with genestealers where they got copy/paste from crap to continue to be crap. A few point tweeks here and there and some new abilities is all the GKs really need. What else would you want? They already have big tanks, a big MC, flyer, solid troops, HQs that can change what counts a troop....

  4. #144

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    I'll reserve judgement for now, but unless they give GK some workable anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry options that doesn't involve hitting it with a hammer, to compensate for removing the means most GK lists covered those areas, then I'll be annoyed.

    Its all fine an dandy to make high minded claims about how things should have been, but the fact was the GK specific units we have today were costed, balanced and equipped with all the other elements of the old DH codex in mind, that GW has now stripped away.

    Unless there is a serious rethink and rebalancing to address the gaping holes doing so has torn in the GK forces FoC, some points tweaks to bring GKs more in line with the general points deflation that's been the norm everywhere else, and some copy and paste rules from other codex will just not cut it.

    Now, as a GK player who was only ever interested in playing a pure GK army, I would be ecstatic if there was a proper rebalancing after all the riff-raff have been stripped out to allow me to build pure GK armies without having to suffer the penalties the old codex used to impose on such builds, but I'm not holding my breath.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    It has everything to do with your post. Sisters, the Inquisition, Assassins, Grey Knights, etc, have no reason to be shoved into the same one or two sources for the sake of tradition when in the fluff the faction often have little or nothing to do with each other, especially when placing them in the same faction forces you to play them together when, again, they are often completely independent entities. They absolutely, unquestionably, 100% deserve to be able to be taken independently of each other. So, sure, go ahead and criticize the prices or the quality of the rules in the books, GW absolutely deserves that, but whining about how everything is getting split up when it should be split up is silly.

    BTW, before complaining about how you can't run stuff at tournaments because "two sources" is the standard set by Frontline Gaming with the LVO/BAO and most tournaments are following their lead, this is still early 7th. Things are very much in flux, and I know Reece and Frankie are very open to the idea of tweaking the format to accommodate things like Assassins in, say, an IG army with allied Space Marines, or something similar. That front will sort itself out.
    Since his whole argument was about a book I made no reference to, and added nothing but a tangent under the guise of rebuttal you are incorrect. The complaint isn't that it's being split up from things that have shared design space for over twenty years (although, holy crap that should be commented on), it's that it's being split up and nothing is being put back in.
    To Shoehorn- To force into inadequate space. You'd have to try really hard to come up with how there's inadequate space in a Grey Knights book for Inquisitors and Assassins.

  6. #146

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    uhm... none of this has much to do with the actual rules. I think we get it, you're mad that things cost money, I guess?

    New codex release has always been GW's money maker. Its been almost 3 decades now people, can we move on?

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfmusashi View Post
    Since his whole argument was about a book I made no reference to, and added nothing but a tangent under the guise of rebuttal you are incorrect. The complaint isn't that it's being split up from things that have shared design space for over twenty years (although, holy crap that should be commented on), it's that it's being split up and nothing is being put back in.
    To Shoehorn- To force into inadequate space. You'd have to try really hard to come up with how there's inadequate space in a Grey Knights book for Inquisitors and Assassins.
    You said, and I quote "How were they shoehorned together? They've been hanging out since Grey Knights started wearing power armor. Shoot, before that they were all hanging out with the Sisters and Arbites because they're all bits and bobs. None of these groups is a real and complete army and the reduction of them further into components is just painful."

    Pretty certain I explained EXACTLY how and why the Sisters and Inquisition were "shoehorned together." I pointed out that in the established background they were not part of the same force "hanging out" regardless what you might wish to believe. And while I didn't mention the GK, you are fundamentally incorrect there as well. It has absolutely nothing to do with there being space or not. The simple fact is they were not all the same force period and both the Sisters and the GK have been complete armies in the backstory from their beginnings in Rogue Trader. Sisters didn't even have models before the 2nd edition Codex Imperialis book which could be used as allies and then as an army of their own at the end of 2nd with their own codex. They were never a "miscellaneous" unit. They were part of the Ecclesiarchy forces in CI. Grey Knights didn't get models until 2nd edition as well and you could buy two different Inquisitor models to use with them *if* you wanted, but they were not purchased as a squad upgrade or as part of the GK terminator unit. They didn't start wearing power armour until the Daemonhunters book which by that time both them and Sisters were pretty well fleshed out. The only actual Arbites models were made in 1993 for 2nd edition (again Codex Imperialis), but were then moved to Necromunda. They have not had actual 40K rules since CI, though you could imagine them as part of a PDF by using the rules for IG if you wanted. The Assassins were *never* part of the Inquisition in the beginning and have had at least TWO separate codices of their own since 2nd edition (I still own both of them). Before that you could get Imperial Assassins by themselves as well.

    Honestly I have no idea where you are coming up with your information. It is completely incorrect. If you like I can provide page number and WD issue references.

    As to the topic, I completely agree with the way they are splitting them back out, especially the assassins. And since there are multiple Inquisitorial Ordos I think moving all of them out as well is perfectly acceptable and appropriate. The only thing I don't happen to agree with is that they aren't releasing anything new for the GKs themselves.
    Last edited by silashand; 08-17-2014 at 07:22 PM.

  8. #148

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    So earlier in this thread they were talking about Draigo punching the head of the Dark Angles, what book was that in? I want to read in to it to torment a friend of mine.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable70 View Post
    So earlier in this thread they were talking about Draigo punching the head of the Dark Angles, what book was that in? I want to read in to it to torment a friend of mine.
    Yeah. I was wondering that as well. Please, someone tell us.

    As an aside, despite that fact that the codex is probably going to be pretty basic, I still plumped for the collectors edition. You may call me a mug with more bucks than brains, and I won't argue about it (except the "bucks" bit). I know I am, but Daemonhunters were my first army. I couldn't help it.

  10. #150
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    Pandorax.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

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