Conscripts in Unbound Armies

[Charistoph]

People can always agree to waive any rules or costs. That isn't in question. The standard, however, is that one must pay the required unit cost short of special agreement. Currently, that requires the purchase of that Platoon to get Conscripts. There is no gray area on the matter. The only reason we are even having this conversation is someone wants to pay bargain basement prices for improved troops across the line without doing the unit requirement.

That's why I classified it as my opinion, rather than the rules.

This is rather similar to the concept of: "Can I take Rhinos and Razorbacks in Unbound without buying them as a Dedicated Transport?" On one hand, the rules state one thing, that you can take whatever you want in your collection. On the other hand, they won't have a battlefield role and one USUALLY must buy them with another unit.

In the same vein, I do not see a rule in the C: AM that says one must take an Infantry Platoon to get a Conscript Squad, either, but I am running off an old digital version that may not be up to date, and not the hardback. All it says is that it has an Infantry Platoon contains this mix, and all of it counts as one Troops slot.

So, from that perspective, a Conscript Squad could count as a whole Troops Slot choice on its own. Scary.

[Ssyrie]

That's why I classified it as my opinion, rather than the rules.

This is rather similar to the concept of: "Can I take Rhinos and Razorbacks in Unbound without buying them as a Dedicated Transport?" On one hand, the rules state one thing, that you can take whatever you want in your collection. On the other hand, they won't have a battlefield role and one USUALLY must buy them with another unit.

In the same vein, I do not see a rule in the C: AM that says one must take an Infantry Platoon to get a Conscript Squad, either, but I am running off an old digital version that may not be up to date, and not the hardback. All it says is that it has an Infantry Platoon contains this mix, and all of it counts as one Troops slot.

So, from that perspective, a Conscript Squad could count as a whole Troops Slot choice on its own. Scary.

Exactly. It's almost as if the writers just assumed that we would understand that any part of the platoon could only be bought as part of one, without actually telling us directly (as they did in previous editions). And I think everyone knows what happens when you assume something. Also, a dedicated transport is still a transport. You just couldn't have anyone inside when they deploy if not bought with a unit, but you could have them standing next to them to board on turn 1.

List building in unbound should be simple, if you have the points you can buy it. The only exception is allowing two or more of a particular Unique unit.

[Katharon]

The codex in any edition (from 2nd to 6th) has never allowed you to take conscripts without the parent platoon. Ever. I know, I've played IG since 2nd.

Charistoph, when you say "old digital version" I am more than a little worried. GW's digital versions always update themselves with new updates and changes. It sounds like your pdf version -- the provenance of which I will not question here -- is probably a bit skewed or even wrong. Do yourself a favor and just go buy the codex. It's a nice coffee table piece.

As to your assertion that you "do not see a rule in the C: AM that says one must take an Infantry Platoon to get a Conscript Squad," allow me to give you the page number: p. 94 & p. 95.

"Infantry Platoon | Composition: .... 0-1 Conscripts Squad." (p.94)

"Conscripts Squad | Each Infantry Platoon may include one squad of Conscripts." (p.95)

Codex entry, page 36, under the heading of "Infantry Platoons" and NOT "Conscript Squads."


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Look, I'm sorry, but you lose. There is no ambiguity here. None. Whether you choose to accept that fact is irrelevant to the fact itself. Facts don't change just because we don't like them. And like I said earlier, if your opponent doesn't mind you breaking the Army List rules for creating a unit, then go ahead and field Conscript Squads without their rule-required parent platoon. That's fine for you as long as your opponent also agrees. No one is stopping you. However, it will not change the fact that you are still in violation of the codex requirements.

[Theik]

The codex in any edition (from 2nd to 6th) has never allowed you to take conscripts without the parent platoon. Ever. I know, I've played IG since 2nd.

Charistoph, when you say "old digital version" I am more than a little worried. GW's digital versions always update themselves with new updates and changes. It sounds like your pdf version -- the provenance of which I will not question here -- is probably a bit skewed or even wrong. Do yourself a favor and just go buy the codex. It's a nice coffee table piece.

As to your assertion that you "do not see a rule in the C: AM that says one must take an Infantry Platoon to get a Conscript Squad," allow me to give you the page number: p. 94 & p. 95.

"Infantry Platoon | Composition: .... 0-1 Conscripts Squad." (p.94)

"Conscripts Squad | Each Infantry Platoon may include one squad of Conscripts." (p.95)

Codex entry, page 36, under the heading of "Infantry Platoons" and NOT "Conscript Squads."


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Look, I'm sorry, but you lose. There is no ambiguity here. None. Whether you choose to accept that fact is irrelevant to the fact itself. Facts don't change just because we don't like them. And like I said earlier, if your opponent doesn't mind you breaking the Army List rules for creating a unit, then go ahead and field Conscript Squads without their rule-required parent platoon. That's fine for you as long as your opponent also agrees. No one is stopping you. However, it will not change the fact that you are still in violation of the codex requirements.

Except you do not have any facts. You read "take any unit you want", believe you read "you have infinite FOC slots and no mandatory slots", and you are now broadcasting your version of unbound as fact, when in fact you have an oppinion based entirely on what you believe unbound should be.

Until a FAQ clarifies what "take any unit you want" means you have no facts whatsoever.

[Caitsidhe]

Until a FAQ clarifies what "take any unit you want" means you have no facts whatsoever.

Wrong. Until there is a Faq which says otherwise, you must apply "rules as written" and per that, you must abide by the listed Unit costs and restrictions. That means the only way to take Conscripts is by taking a Platoon. That is the heart of the matter. Conscripts have a built in restriction in that they only come as part of a different unit. This isn't rocket science. Yes, you may take any unit you want, abiding by that unit's restrictions. Conscripts have a specific requirement, i.e. they come as part of a Platoon. RAW demands that until a Faq or Errata says otherwise, that you must abide by that.

[Theik]

Wrong. Until there is a Faq which says otherwise, you must apply "rules as written" and per that, you must abide by the listed Unit costs and restrictions. That means the only way to take Conscripts is by taking a Platoon. That is the heart of the matter. Conscripts have a built in restriction in that they only come as part of a different unit. This isn't rocket science. Yes, you may take any unit you want, abiding by that unit's restrictions. Conscripts have a specific requirement, i.e. they come as part of a Platoon. RAW demands that until a Faq or Errata says otherwise, that you must abide by that.

Except it doesn't say you can ignore the FOC either, so by your logic you can use any unit, as long as you follow all the normal rules... So you can use any unit as long as you follow the FOC, so.... Hey, you're playing a battleforged army now.

A platoon is NOT a unit, its a FOC entity, a collection of units that takes up one slot. If you do not use FOCs, you also do not use FOC entity collections like platoons.

[Katharon]

A platoon is NOT a unit, its a FOC entity, a collection of units that takes up one slot. If you do not use FOCs, you also do not use FOC entity collections like platoons.

Page 94, under the head of "Infantry Platoon": "Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops slot on the force organization chart."

Ergo, it's a troop choice. The composition of which includes "1 Platoon command Squad, 2-5 Infantry Squads, 0-5 Heavy Weapon Squads, 0-3 Specialist Squads, and 0-1 Conscript Squad."

You have to take the platoon to take the conscripts. Even in unbound. End. of. Discussion.

[John Bower]

Page 94, under the head of "Infantry Platoon": "Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops slot on the force organization chart."

Ergo, it's a troop choice. The composition of which includes "1 Platoon command Squad, 2-5 Infantry Squads, 0-5 Heavy Weapon Squads, 0-3 Specialist Squads, and 0-1 Conscript Squad."

You have to take the platoon to take the conscripts. Even in unbound. End. of. Discussion.

And in the BRB it also says that the rules are guidelines; feel free to change what you like as long as you and your opponent agree. Which since it is in the Rulebook in itself makes it a rule. I would personally have no issues with a whole force of Conscripts. Back in the old codex it did say 'the units on the following pages may only be taken as part of a platoon' but it doesn't say that anymore. Unbound is unbound; per the BRB; take any models in your collection and I'm pretty sure you only have to obey size and points restrictions and of course loadout.

Tactical SM squad with 3 MLs' - illegal; it doesn't follow the restrictions for loadout
Conscript squad consisting of 20 conscripts with lasguns - legal; it follows the normal restrictions for that 'unit'.

[Theik]

Page 94, under the head of "Infantry Platoon": "Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops slot on the force organization chart."

Ergo, it's a troop choice. The composition of which includes "1 Platoon command Squad, 2-5 Infantry Squads, 0-5 Heavy Weapon Squads, 0-3 Specialist Squads, and 0-1 Conscript Squad."

You have to take the platoon to take the conscripts. Even in unbound. End. of. Discussion.

Yes, its a troop slot, nobody disagrees with that. Its not a unit though, so going by strict read as written, you can't even take it.

[Caitsidhe]

Yes, its a troop slot, nobody disagrees with that. Its not a unit though, so going by strict read as written, you can't even take it.

Sure you can, if you take a Platoon. If you don't take a Platoon, I agree... you can't take it. It seems that we have worked this out and surprise... surprise... surprise... the answer was you can't take Conscripts without taking a Platoon.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI[/url]