New Grey Knights

[Halollet]

Nerf really your that delutional to belive that is what nerfing meens... wow did you come from a video game? nerf by factor is changing a rule set in a current edition because it is belived to be overpowered when the thing that is being changed is still in said edition.

Reballanced meens a outdated rule in a older edition considered to be unstable to the new rule set edition you do recall we are now in 7th edition not 6th and this new edition comes with a new phase.

now on to the lord of war when apoc came out and escaltion i heard alot of issues regaurding "where is the grey knights lord of war" some people out right refusing to play games with lord of wars because well grey knights had a hard time when fighting lord of wars without one.

onto your next point maybe they removed stuff for some reason being that those units are in another book or to make the army less overbearing with its rules but that is down to the creators it could also be legal reasons because having no model for a unit in the book could make issues like the chapter house lawsuit. i agree with the point regaurding negitivity but i can do that too dismissing anything anyone says about anyone being even remotely positive is ironic to what you coment on my signature

Limited options? the limits are what you see them as if you think outside the box a unit can have more useis then what other people think it could have that is the reason we play thease sort of games to outwit and outplay your foes the problem latly people belive a list should be able to steamroll a player because of its construction heres a exsample i use IK because the model is sexy and they are powerful there was people telling me i was gonna win because knights are OP do you want know what happend turn 2 vs tau he managed to get a unit behind my knight and a riptide that i was going to blow the hell out of infront of me the unit that he got on my flank it blew up the knight in that turn because he put me in a position that i could not defend myself that there was not over powered nore was it broken i call it he outplayed me and won the match because he did somthing i did not expect from a tau player and that there is how people should be playing the game using wits not building a list that have a define perpous like taking heldrakes because you think your going up agienst horde army's versitility is the aim here not define perpous

Sorry about spelling the spell checker site has gone down

I'm sorry, but how do you consider PAGKs being able to use Psycannons effectively, unstable? If that's not a "nerf" then I'll call that a kick in the balls.

And how does taking away things give us the same or more options? Strikes can't use Psycannons worth a damn anymore, same with Purgs. Our diverse CC weapons got hacked to medioctrity. Liked that different weapons did different things and there was debate which to take in what ammonts. Now if you're trying to save points, take a sword, otherwise take flachions and hammers because there's no real point to taking anything else. That's a kick-in-the-balls/nerf or whatever you want to call it.

When Tau came out, here's something new and cool that your army was missing!

When Eldar came out, here's a something awesome and here some new toys to play with!

When Space Marines came out, here's some rules to make your own custom chapter(s) with lots of toys!

Then Nids came out, bland, bring big bugs and walk forward. If you want to do something else, give us more money.

Then Guard came out, removed special rules and tanks galore leaving blandness

Now GKs, more blandness.

Sorry, but the game is still coming down from that high of awesomeness and new toys. When all armies are nothing but stale bread maybe then people will freaking out so much.

[Halollet]

Just had a thought about that psylencer. Instead of trying to knock out a riptide with it, wouldn't it be better going after smaller things to negate their feel no pain? I'm looking at you death company and plauge marines!

[DarkLink]

Nerf really your that delutional to belive thatis what nerfing meens...

So when I say that "nerf" means that a particular unit got weaker, and the definition of nerfed is: "a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change" (wikipedia). Frankly, I'm pretty sure you don't know what nerfed means.

wow did you come from a video game?

Whether your game is played on a computer, console, tabletop, or on paper, the definition of nerfed remains exactly the same.

nerf by factor is changing a rule set in a current edition because it is belived to be overpowered when the thing that is being changed is still in said edition.

Coherent sentences, please.

Reballanced meens a outdated rule in a older edition considered to be unstable to the new rule set edition you do recall we are now in 7th edition not 6th and this new edition comes with a new phase.

Rebalanced just means that something changed, presumably with the intention of either nerfing it or buffing it to maintain balance. Balance doesn't inherently have anything to do with "stability", which I can only assume you use to mean functionality within the rule set. Thing is, Grey Knights had perfectly functional rules in 6th and 7th. There weren't really any outstanding "how does this work" questions. Really, the only FAQs were for the Aegis and what psychic powers each unit generated. And it's not like GW cares if it has nonsensical rules as it is. The new codex was only nominally intended to clean up rules issues. The main intent was to "rebalance" the Grey Knights, but more importantly to give them a release to drive sales.

Regardless, this is an utterly irrelevant point. GW "rebalances" things every single codex. It's simply a thing that happens. It doesn't mean they do a good (or bad) job inherently. You're basically responding to my claim that the new codex is much more limited than the previous one with "but they got a new codex". That's not an argument, just an uninformed statement that really isn't even relevant to the discussion at hand.

now on to the lord of war when apoc came out and escaltion i heard alot of issues regaurding "where is the grey knights lord of war" some people out right refusing to play games with lord of wars because well grey knights had a hard time when fighting lord of wars without one.

News to me. Doesn't matter anyways. We didn't actually get a Lord of War. We got an HQ disguised as a Lord of War. People were pissed off when it happened to Ghaz, and they're pissed off now that it happened to Draigo. You're incredibly obtuse if you think that, by asking for a Lord of War, people actually meant "take one of our only good HQ choices and then swap around his position in the force org chart to make it prohibitively expensive to take him... unless you play our awesome patented Unbound (tm) rules!!!!". And if you're pretending that we should be happy that is very much not in the spirit of what we asked for, when many of us weren't even asking for it in the first place, and then accusing us of being whiny that we're pissed off at it, then you're just being a dick.

Limited options? the limits are what you seethem as if you think outside the box a unit can have more useis then what otherpeople think it could have that is the reason

The limits are what the rules restrict you to being able to do. This game is not rocket science. What you're refering to does in fact exist. Take Genestealers. Genestealers are terrible. Fragile, and generally pretty bad. But, they have a few little tricks they can pull that makes them situationally worthwhile, thanks to Infiltrate and the Broodlord's ability to take psychic powers.

But that requires that you have some sort of special rule or ability or something that you can take advantage of. Without that, you're stuck with the exact same tricks every single other person in the game can pull. Which doesn't work out well when they do it with a unit that is just plain better than yours. That math is pretty easy to do.

When you consider a unit like Strike Squads though, they have absolutely nothing that they can do that you can't do better with something else in the game, or even in the codex. There really aren't any unknowns involved. Their shooting, lacking psybolt ammo and good psycannons, is pretty terrible for their points. For their points, they're only marginally better than Tactical Marines. For any halfway competent player, it doesn't take fifty games of experimentation to figure out that these guys are not very good.

Keep in mind that I've been playing Grey Knights for a very long time now. This is still almost the exact same unit as it was previously, and the same loadout loses Str 5 storm bolters and psycannons are terrible on them, for exactly the same overall points cost. The two things that made them a decent (and I say decent because they weren't amazing) were str 5 storm bolters and psycannons. They lost those two things. They got nerfed (because that is, in fact, what nerfed means), and they did not gain any new special rules or tricks that would allow for any "outside the box" thinking. If there were said options, trust me, us GK players would have found it at some point over the last half a decade and been like "hey, this is a fun little trick you can pull". And, no, the new detachment that lets you deepstrike T1 doesn't help Strike Squads. It just works better with other units.

To replace the string of nerfs, GKs gained effectively no new special rules or abilities that fall into the "unknown quantities" category. The few that did, like the deepstrike detachment, are best used in other ways than trying vainly to make Strike Squads decent (and remember, Purifiers can't deepstrike, so it does them no good).

we play thease sort of games to outwit and outplay your foes

To outwit and outplay your foes, on a level playing field. That last part is kind of important, and completely undermines this part of your argument.

the problem latly people belive a list should be able to steamroll a player because of its construction heres a exsample i use IK because the model is sexy and they are powerful there was people telling me i was gonna win because knights are OP do you want know what happend turn 2 vs tau he managed to get a unit behind my knight and a riptide that i was going to blow the hell out of infront of me the unit that he got on my flank it blew up the knight in that turn because he put me in a position that i could not defend myself that there was not over powered nore was it broken i call it he outplayed me and won the match because he did somthing i did not expect from a tau player and that there is how people should be playing the game using wits not building a list that have a define perpous like taking heldrakes because you think your going up agienst horde army's versitility is the aim here not define perpous

...huh? You mind running that by us in english?

From what I could grasp, it sounds like you're accusing us of complaining because Grey Knights aren't going to auto-table every single army they face. That's just plain insulting. If you think I, and all Grey Knight players categorically, are only in it to to curb-stomp people, you're just being rude. I began playing Grey Knights years before the 5th edition codex, when Daemonhunters were tied with Necrons for being the worst army in the game. When the 5th ed codex came out, I never ran Draigowing or Purifier spam or Acolyte spam or any of the other super-cheesy lists. And the GK's reign ceased the second 6th came out, so any GK bandwagoners have left long ago. Take your insults elsewhere.

In 6th and the beginning of 7th, GKs were a solid mid-tier codex, trending slightly downwards as they aged. We just needed a few cool new toys to play with, and to update some of the units that turned out to be bad in 7th to be rebalanced. Well, they got rebalanced. All those units that were bad before? Now they're worse (which, again, is the precise definition of a nerf, since you apparently don't know what that means). Except Librarians and Dreadknights. They're pretty good now. Not awesome, but pretty good.

So, naturally, we're pretty annoyed about it. So you can take your self-righteous complain-about-complaining attitude elsewhere, at least if you're going to continue to be as disrespectful and insulting (and incoherent) as you have been.







And by the way, while I'm not particularly happy with the new codex, I'm not super angry about it or anything. It only sounds like that because whenever anyone expresses any opinion that's even slightly negative, it's construed as whining and complaining and then people who don't know anything start talking ****. Naturally, the response to said insults is going to sound negative, creating a sort of death spiral. So instead of attacking anyone who has a negative opinion, maybe you should, y'know, not attack them for their opinion just because it's not all sparkles and sunshine.

Sorry about spelling the spell checker site has gone down

That's what elementary school was for.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not really worth the extra effort for killing stuff with FNP, I think. There's not that much of it, really. Unless you know you're going to be facing Plague Marines or something, and in that case you'll still net more points dropping the Daemon Princes. Really, as cool as it sounds on paper, I doubt psilencers will last through playtesting. I don't see the circumstances in which a psilencer is better than a psycannon to come up very often, and the only platform on which they aren't mutually exclusive is the Dreadknight, in which case it might be pretty solid.

[Blood Shadow]

Just for the record, I actually like the new GK codex, is it me or has the fluff section just got massively more informative? Seems like there's more than before?

[DarkLink]

I haven't seen any of the non-rules stuff. And like I said, I've thought up a few lists that I like. I'll be annoyed that a large portion of the codex will just get ignored for the next few years and most of my collection will sit on the shelf, but whatever.

[The Tisroc]

Where can I find the rules that has Draigo making Paladins "objective secured"? I bought the codex today and cannot find that. Perhaps I am going blind. My mother warned me that might happen...

[daboarder]

That would probably be because there isn't one

[The Tisroc]

Page one of this thread indicated there was such a rule and I've been frantically looking for it...

[daboarder]

Was past tense

[DarkLink]

Well, this is awkward...