Slight issue for my army is it bound or unbound?

[Xaric]

Ok first off my army consists of

Primary detachment
One Knight errent
Two Knight Paladins

AM detachment formation apoc (page 85)
Three squads of Three armoured sentinels
One Scout Sentinel
Three Enginseers with 2 servotors each

Now the issue i am having is this army classed as unbound or bound because from what i am told a formation counts as being bound but because i addid enginseers would they make this unbound at the moment for me its yes but also no.
The reason it is a bound army for enginseers is because they take up no slot and you may add them for each astra militarum detachment to a max of 3 would this still be bound?

[daboarder]

Are enfineseers in the formation?

If not then it doesnt matter if they are slotless or not. They aren't a part of the formation nore
A cad therefore you ate unbound.

[Xaric]

cad? but thanks for clearing that up for me

[daboarder]

Combined arms detatchment. Basic FOC

[Charon]

Formations:

Each Formation will tell you what units you need to take and what, if any, options or restrictions apply to the units that make up that Formation.

So no. No extra engineseers if they are not in the requirement for the formation.

Also:

Apocalypse Formations
If a Formation is referred to as an Apocalypse Formation, it can only be used in games of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse.

[Xaric]

The formation may come from the apocalypse book but it is a battle formation. i cant find where you found this entry regaurding apocalypse formation but the staff in my GW shop said its legal and i am sure thease guys are much more understanding off the rules because they work for the company that made the game and it is not just 1 store staff its all of them including the manager who agree that any GW publication that has formations may be used in standard 40K games.

I am a little confused why you shouldent be able to use any formation what they are known for thease powers came from a big apoc game but then lost there memorys when they entered a skermish that would make no sense.

[Charon]

...from the apocalypse book...

mhm...

It is on every formation they release since... well... the first formation they incorporated into "standard" 40k.

Your argument is bull****. I used to work for Bayer and still have no clue about chemical formulas.
As EVERYTHING in the game its up to agreement. If there is no specific agreement, stick to the rules.

Also from the Apocalypse book:

APOCALYPSE FORMATIONS
This section includes the rules for the different types of formations, such as
Psychic Choirs and Armoured Spearheads, and the rules and profiles for the
devastating weapons they use. It ends with a huge collection of datasheets for
use in your games of Apocalypse, providing information and rules for
everything from a Necron Tesseract Vault to a full company of Space Marines.

[daboarder]

yeah its in black and white, Apoc formations and 40k Formations are two different things.

EDIT: and no, GW employs dont get super secret rule induction courses, half of them dont know jack

[Tokunator]

I am not really convinced by the 'A GW guy told me I could, so I can' argument either, as a lot of them are a bit shaky on the rules and also keen on selling you stuff.

Regardless of that, it is still true that your Engineseers are not part of the formation, not part of any other formation or in a legal primary or allied detachment. As this means that you have at least one element that does not comply to a Combined Arms Detachment or any of the variant detachments (such as the ones published in the last couple of codicies, Orks, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Assassins...), your entire army does not comply to the rules of Battleforged Armies and is therefore considered to be Unbound.

[Xaric]

I emailed them because i was unsure when responding on my thread well unfortantly for people who dont agree with normal games having apoc formations i got a email today saying from GW FAQ black libary a formation is a formation also the people who are at my local GW store spoke to the events team also regaurding this fact and they also said a formation is a formation so please stop with the non-sense you are claiming.

Did you know the apoc book is before 7th edition and there is a rule of thumb the latest edition of a book that contains the most current and up to date rules always takes president over ruling unless FAQ by Black libary FAQ and as it states there is no ruling in the current 7th edition book saying you are not allowed to use formations from any book. This sounds like back when flyers first came out that armys without a flyer would ban them because they are unfair but changed when everyone started to get flyers or when escilation came out and everyone refused to play anyone with a lord of war because they belived they do not belong in normal games... unfortantly cry as much as you want 40k is the grimdark future it is after all apocalyptic in most of the fluff and background.

If you wish not to play with some rules thats a agreement to you and the person you are facing but please do not make rules up because you feel its unfair to justify poor wording i will always go by if its not in the rule book with in reason then its acceptable.