Lords of War and Primarchs

[Gryphon]

Darren, Doesn‘t everyone cherry pick to some extent anyway? Out of all the available options in the codices, players are going to pick those options/units that will win them the game. I originally started this thread because I couldn't understand my meta's damnation of using a Primarch when they have no issues with c‘tans, revenant titans, and warhound titans. Now granted, I don't have all the rules for my primarch, just what I found on BoLS. I didn't think him anymore powerful than the other aformentioned op models. I wasnt trying to cherrypick per se, but just be able to compete in a tourney. I just wanted a chance to win, and felt that I couldn‘t compete if I didn't have a LoW on the table as well. In the few short years I have been playing I've found that one really op model, or combination, can practically win the game for you. Being tabled 30-0 consistently in this manner is no fun. Plus, I bought the model, not only because he's an awsome looking model, but I wanted to use him. I can‘t even use him in regular games because of the meta.
On the flip side, a conversation I had with a veteran gamer assures me a Primarch could wipe out an entire army by himself. He also explained some of the other rules Primarchs have, so I better understanding of everyone's consern. I am no longer upset over what I perceived as discrimanatory exclusion. The rest of the meta couldn‘t (wouldn't?) adequately explain their fear of the primarch. Interestingly enough, the next tournement coming up in September will exclude C'tans, Revenant Titans, Warhound Titans, and ranged D weapons.
Thanks for replying to the thread. I appreciate the thoughts, and opinoins. All of them help me understand the game better.

[Brother Talion]

The 30k for 30k excuse is really not accurate. I have played my 30k army vs. 40k armies many times and here is my experience. At 2000 pts and lower, 30k marines are a bit weaker then 40k armies. 3+ armor just is not what it used to be and 30k marines do not have ATSKNF so they suffer morale checks. I even use a Spartan assault tank for a blob tactical squad but it is not that great at 300pts. The tank that is good is the Sicaran w/Accelerator cannons (you do not get jink saves vs. them) but it is still pretty much a predator and is accurately pointed. Once you go over 2000 pts. the balance starts to shift to 30k armies. I play Blood Angels and do not have my primarch yet. I have a Sons of Horus army and Horus but have not played him. I have played with Angron a couple of times and Fulgrim once. Primarchs can be killed, and your opponent will generally lay everything on them. Angron is a beast in CC but getting him there is tricky and they can be tied up with blobs. With the new psychic phase I am sort of afraid that Magnus is going to be very powerful (too much for games 2k or less). You may offer to swap armies for a rematch if they are willing to let you play a game with your primarch. Once they play against it and then with it against you they will learn that FW/30K really isn't broken. I would just use the formula that a Primarch can not use more then 25% of your army's points. 500pt primarch would require 2000k min army size. Horus in a 1500 pt army would be pretty insane.

[DarkLink]

Both the Spartan Assault Tank and the Sicarian are brutally good. They're basically just plain better than the Land Raider/Predator, respectively, for a minimal increase in cost. Both are perfectly legal for regular 40k, though.

[Gryphon]

Thanks for the reply guys. I'm not surprised about your assessment. Isn't 30k more of a general hordes, melee type warfare as opposed to 40k shoot everything to death theme?

[Pssyche]

The only problem I would have is that, as you have just stated, you don't have the Rules, just what you've picked up on BoLS.
That's not really good enough.

[Charistoph]

Darren, Doesn‘t everyone cherry pick to some extent anyway? Out of all the available options in the codices, players are going to pick those options/units that will win them the game.

Totally different concept. Darren was talking about taking key units out of books and playing them without cohesion, not just taking the best units/Detachments out of a codex. While it's legal to do that Unbound, it's just not possible with a Battle-Forged list.

I originally started this thread because I couldn't understand my meta's damnation of using a Primarch when they have no issues with c‘tans, revenant titans, and warhound titans. Now granted, I don't have all the rules for my primarch, just what I found on BoLS. I didn't think him anymore powerful than the other aformentioned op models.

Well, I can agree with you there. While a Primarch is powerful, more powerful than most HQs and Characters being made LoW, he's still not on the level of a Gargaunt or Super-Heavy. Closer to a really good Unique Monstrous Creature, and while they ARE scary, the 40K game has had those for a long time. Not nearly as scary as the Eldar Titan in Escalation.

On the flip side, a conversation I had with a veteran gamer assures me a Primarch could wipe out an entire army by himself. He also explained some of the other rules Primarchs have, so I better understanding of everyone's consern. I am no longer upset over what I perceived as discrimanatory exclusion. The rest of the meta couldn‘t (wouldn't?) adequately explain their fear of the primarch.

Hyperbole goes a long way. And while a Primarch could defeat a good chunk of most armies with little difficulty once they were in close combat, and would defeat a whole army in the fluff, we all know how the game isn't as forgiving to Assaults as it used to be.