End Times; Nagash - Spoilerific discussion.

[Anggul]

I need something clarified. It seems they've retconned the Time of Legends Nagash/Vampires series. In them, Nagash created the immortals. After Nagash died, Neferata sought to recreate the immortal elixir, but screwed up and made vampires instead. She never fought alongside Nagash as one of his 'Mortarchs'. If she had, she would have been an immortal rather than a vampire, in fact vampires wouldn't exist at all.

What changed? Have the immortals been retconned and instead Nagash made the vampires? It seems odd to retcon Time of Legends as they're essentially the Fantasy equivalent of the Horus Heresy books.

[eldargal]

After Neferata was outed as a vampire and Lahmia was destroyed she and the survivors fled Norf and eventually all ended up at Nagashizzle where they fought for Nagash until Alcadizar or whatever his name is defeated them and they legged it and Nagash cursed them. So it's not a retcon to have them fighting alongside him now and I don't think anything has been changed about how the vampires came into being?

[Anggul]

After Neferata was outed as a vampire and Lahmia was destroyed she and the survivors fled Norf and eventually all ended up at Nagashizzle where they fought for Nagash until Alcadizar or whatever his name is defeated them and they legged it and Nagash cursed them. So it's not a retcon to have them fighting alongside him now and I don't think anything has been changed about how the vampires came into being?

I thought Nagash was dead before Neferata made the vampires. Was this after he returned?

[eldargal]

I think he wasn't dead but had just fled Khemri and Neferata used his books to make the vampires? I forget.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Nagash wasn't killed; he was defeated and driven north to Nagashizzar. Neferata discovered one of his books in the sacked Black Pyramid.

Arkhan got killed, though.

Nagash has been "killed" twice: once by Alcadizzar with the Fellblade, once by Sigmar.

The basic timeline as I recall it is: Nagash studies Black Magic, Nagash tries to take over, the Priest Kings drive him out, the Vampires are created and Lahmia falls, Nagash tries to take over but is beaten by Alcadizzar, Nagash unleashes a great plague which kills most of Nehekhara (aided by the Skaven) and then conducts his Great Ritual which raises them in undeath, and defeats Alcadizzar, Alcadizzar (aided by the Skaven) destroys Nagash.

Then, over a thousand years later, Nagash tries to get the gang back together, but many of them (especially the vampires) refuse. He gets beaten by Sigmar.

It's only at the hands of Arkhan and Mannfred that Nagash is once more able to manifest at anything like full power, and even then, he's only at about 80% because the ritual was subverted. Like Count Duckula.

People are too quick to call "retcon", I find.

[Anggul]

Nagash wasn't killed; he was defeated and driven north to Nagashizzar. Neferata discovered one of his books in the sacked Black Pyramid.

Arkhan got killed, though.

Nagash has been "killed" twice: once by Alcadizzar with the Fellblade, once by Sigmar.

People are too quick to call "retcon", I find.

Ah right, thanks. To clarify, this is second hand knowledge which is why I don't know it properly. Thought I had better find out for sure.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

No worries, man, I had to go back and forth with the Tomb Kings book to get the timeline right in my own head. I thought it was more like you did at first.

[eldargal]

I think the older lore had Neferata using some of Nagash's blood to make her elixir of life but the new VC book has her make it on her own in Lamia without his assistance, which I prefer. Then she finds out Nagash isn't ded and sends envoys but some get captured by the Khemrians andthe vampires get found out and Khemri attacks Lahmia.

[Wolfshade]

the ritual was subverted. Like Count Duckula.

+1 internets to you sir!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

"BLOOD"

"oi'll get iiiit!"