Why I love the Vengeance Weapons Batteries as scoring units!

[Charon]

They still cannot score

They can...
BRB Scoring Units

Scoring Units
Any unit can be a scoring unit, unless:
• It is a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature, a Zooming Flyer or is a unit currently embarked on a Zooming Flyer.
• It has a special rule specifying that it never counts as a scoring unit.
• It is currently Falling Back (if the unit Regroups it immediately reverts to being a scoring unit again).
• It is a building or fortification that is unclaimed (claimed buildings count as a scoring unit from the claiming player’s army).

He even provides that in his first posting, still some guys want to ignore it.

[JMichael]

He even provides that in his first posting

Indeed I did!

[JMichael]

They still cannot score

If you have read the posts and page ref #'s and still think they are not scoring, would you mind providing some info and page #'s to support your argument?
Maybe there is something I am missing in the rules or Stronghold Assault?

[JMichael]

I played in a tournament last week and several people were not only surprised that it was scoring, but grumbled about it being cheesy and a loophole.
I've only used it a few times so far. And most often when players, including myself, place objectives their may be one in each deployment zone, and the rest in the center. One game I played had all 3 in the center (2 of them I placed there).
In 1 match I did place it next to an objective, but I also held that same objective with 3 other scoring units. And obviously any scoring unit will contest it, and if the have Objective Secured they will hold it!

[John Bower]

Actually while it says ignore the updated building rules; the Firestorm stuff is not part of the updated building rules it's part of it's data sheet. So it still counts. It still fires at a flyer regardless first then closest unit if no flyer available. Another case of misinterpretation. Updated building rules are separate to the dataslates for the fortifications in the SA book. It's that part about how they are used and so on that is to be ignored. Not the dataslates and their relevant special rules.

[JMichael]

Actually while it says ignore the updated building rules; the Firestorm stuff is not part of the updated building rules it's part of it's data sheet. So it still counts. It still fires at a flyer regardless first then closest unit if no flyer available. Another case of misinterpretation. Updated building rules are separate to the dataslates for the fortifications in the SA book. It's that part about how they are used and so on that is to be ignored. Not the dataslates and their relevant special rules.

Yup. Its just a bummer that the Quad Icarus on the Firestorm gets the 'primary target' rule but not the same weapon on the Vengeance Weapons battery.
So my Quad Icarus had to snap shot at infantry who were were closer than the flyer.

[John Bower]

Yup. Its just a bummer that the Quad Icarus on the Firestorm gets the 'primary target' rule but not the same weapon on the Vengeance Weapons battery.
So my Quad Icarus had to snap shot at infantry who were were closer than the flyer.

Ah sorry; I must have misunderstood you; I thought you meant that was why you preferred the Vengeance to the Firestorm Redoubt; my apologies.

[JMichael]

Another good one is the Void Shield Generator. Impassable building. I believe it could only be claimed by Jump infantry, FMCs, and Skimmers that can reach the battlement on top. If you put a Devastator squad up there...good luck rolling the charge distance to get to them!

In my recent games with the Vengeance Weapon batteries, when I remind them it is scoring (when I deploy it) they and occasionally bystanders will say, "Fortifications can't score." Where are people getting this idea?
I went though Stronghold Assault and there are 6 Fortifications that aren't buildings and thus can't score. But 8 that are buildings/scoring units. Some of those are multipart building and could, I believe, then score multiple objectives!
I think because many people haven't read or aren't familiar with Stronghold Assault this takes them by surprise. Which is why I tell them and dont' just assume or hide that info until it comes up later in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought they were fortifications - how the hell does that score?

What makes you think Fortifications can't score? 8 of the 14 Fortifications are buildings and thus can score as per the Rulebook under Scoring Units (p134). I keep hearing people use that statement, and it makes no sense and I don't find that statement/rule anywhere in any of the books.

[Pssyche]

JMichael.
What, if anything, have the Tournament Organizers had to say about your Tactic?
Have they been aware in advance that your Buildings are Scoring Units or have you had to convince them of it, too?

[JMichael]

JMichael.
What, if anything, have the Tournament Organizers had to say about your Tactic?
Have they been aware in advance that your Buildings are Scoring Units or have you had to convince them of it, too?

The TO was not happy (even though every table had an Imperial Bastion in the center) and did not realize that buildings are scoring units. I had to show him in the rulebook and I think he thought it was a cheesy or loophole type of move on my part.

Personally I don't think it is any different that taking a Void Shield Generator (which is cheaper, btw) or any other building. For an opponent to claim one of your buildings will most likely not be an easy task anyway.

I think it comes down to most players here not having the Stronhold Assault book (even though they use Aegis Defence lines) and just not used to or famlier with the rules for Buildings. Honestly I very rarely see anyone take them at all!