A Lowly Codicier's Predictions for the Blood Angels Codex

[daboarder]

Oh yeah I expect that.
Your first statement lsemmed as if they were only available in FA

Only for the 3rd ed codex.

the 3rd ed rule book the 4th ed codex and the 5th ed codex all have them available as troops (and then there al the angels of death stuff from 2nd)

[Takerukau]

As a life-long BA player, I have to say that some of what you're predicting/hoping for will likely not happen. I'm expecting less changes than more changes and more of a general re-dress of the Codex in line with current 7th Editions, with few things that will really pop out.

Some general upfront thoughts (and purely my opinion as yours were for you )

- Red Thirst
BA will get an "always on" Chapter Trait just like the other Marine books. I know GW do left-field things sometimes, but there's no reason to suggest we'll be the only Marine book that has to roll for its special butterfly. It will likely be just Furious Charge as standard, or at a push FC plus another USR, but it's difficult to guage which one that could be.

- Black Rage
They won't go back to random generation for DC, or pulling them out of standard units you have selected for your force. They are a dedicated unit with its own entry now, and 99% will stay as such. There will likely be a formation associated with them, but you could pick from 3 that could be possible (DC, Sanguinary Guard, and varied Jump Pack formation - unlikely to get 3 but you never know).

- Dante is the only character who could possibly get Eternal Warrior, but they're taking away the abundance of that rule so if he gets it, it will possibly come with a notable overhaul of his rules to compensate. Mephiston won't and shouldn't get EC.

- Termi Kit
I'd be massively surprised we get one, although a "rumour" fluttered about a while back regarding a Sanguinary Guard Terminator option. With Space Hulk as well it makes for too much of a likely thing, and the rules would have to be suitably impressive to field any form of Termi unit given they seldom show up at the moment.

- Skimmer/Flyer kit
Again, I'll be very surprised if that happens. We are more likely to aquire the Storm Talon from regular Marines.

Just my initial thoughts, though some of your other suggestions are worth discussing too.

No I hope that you are right about the "Always on" chapter tactics equivalent, but that "rolling for the thirst/rage" element has been so prevalent in the previous iterations of the codex I would be very surprised if they were gone completely. Especially with all of the new mandatory random things we have to deal with now (such as warlord traits and psychic powers), I think it'll be there but however they do it I just want it to feel compelling and interesting (something I won't ever forget to do at the start of the game).

My Black Rage predictions involve a lot of hope for the random generation but I agree it is unlikely. I do expect them to get a points cost drop, or something to make them more of an attractive thing to take. Most people only take them now to unlock the DC dread which is objective secured due to an oversight on the FAQ (a scoring black rage dreadnought? Fun idea, but probably not what they had in mind).

Dante is a logical choice for EW given his age, and it is logical to think that he would be the Lord of War since he is the Chapter Master and Logan Grimnar was the same. I just hope it's Mephiston, because he's my favorite lol he was the first HQ I ever had for this game back when I started some 16ish years ago. I love playing Dante too, so I won't be sad if he gets the LoW spot.

The Storm Talon becoming available also makes a lot of sense (particularly since they have been mentioned in a Blood Angels book by David Annandale) as being available. I think that the skimmer option is there (something akin to the Land speeder storm) to fill a role much like Blood Claws in the new wolf dex, who can take the flyer as a dedicated transport.

The terminators are the only thing that I could think of as a "new squad" that we could get. It's extremely unlikely that we will get access to centurions (and honestly I'd rather not get slowed down by them, so give them jump packs or let the smurfs keep them lol)

[Takerukau]

One thing that I forgot to add to my predictions was Chapter Master Gabriel Seth will disappear from the BA codex completely and the Flesh Tearers will get their own supplement Ala Farsight Enclave and Iyanden.

[daboarder]

while I dont doubt there will be a flesh tearer supp the codex wont lose seth, thats how it works with EVERY supplement, farsight included

[kharne690]

I'm just hoping for sanguinary guard and death company terminators.

[Aaron LeClair]

I'm just hoping for sanguinary guard and death company terminators.

Sanguinary Guard just need a Inv save(or the option there of) they don't need Terminator armor;tho the models would be kick ***, just need to be able to kit bash with other term kits, and I cannot see BA strapping Term Armor on a someone going to the DeathCompany, is there any current talk of that in the lore?(really I would like to know if there is because that would change my mind fast); and once more the models would be kick ***. I do hope they they get a new kit of some type and they just don't toss the Stormtalon in and call it a day.

Heck I'd be ok if they dropped a Plastic Term Libby/Captain kit(like the SM PA captain kit but with librarian options also). there are just so many 'hopes' I could list off, stuff that would make me buy new models tho I already have the models to play the options.

Only thing I can say will happen with 99% certainty that thing are gonna get cheaper, and I hope LR stays as a DT and become heavy, tho really never mattered much due to if I needed to run one I would have a Tact Squad or something that could take it anyways.

[Charistoph]

Only thing I can say will happen with 99% certainty that thing are gonna get cheaper, and I hope LR stays as a DT and become heavy, tho really never mattered much due to if I needed to run one I would have a Tact Squad or something that could take it anyways.

It'll be interesting to see if they keep the Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport for units that don't have the option in C:SM. On one hand, it is a uniqueness to their chapter, on the other hand, 7th Edition is the Copy & Paste Edition, too, so they may just Copy & Paste from C:SM for the same units like Tacticals and Assault Marines.

[daboarder]

Sanguinary Guard just need a Inv save(or the option there of) they don't need Terminator armor;tho the models would be kick ***, just need to be able to kit bash with other term kits, and I cannot see BA strapping Term Armor on a someone going to the DeathCompany, is there any current talk of that in the lore?(really I would like to know if there is because that would change my mind fast); and once more the models would be kick ***. I do hope they they get a new kit of some type and they just don't toss the Stormtalon in and call it a day.

Heck I'd be ok if they dropped a Plastic Term Libby/Captain kit(like the SM PA captain kit but with librarian options also). there are just so many 'hopes' I could list off, stuff that would make me buy new models tho I already have the models to play the options.

Only thing I can say will happen with 99% certainty that thing are gonna get cheaper, and I hope LR stays as a DT and become heavy, tho really never mattered much due to if I needed to run one I would have a Tact Squad or something that could take it anyways.

An invul save on sang guard would be aces.
the only time I could think of rage Terminators would be if they fell while deployed.

[DaveTycho]

I'll go through my wish list/ predictions for the new blood angels:

Black Rage/ red thirst: furious charge will be in somehow, after all, furious charge was literally invented for blood angels back in 3rd ed- it just spread to everyone else later on. Whether they will get it, by default or by some random dice roll, remains to be seen. Takerukau is right to say that the current rule has no detriment to the BA player if he rolls successfully for it. That's why I think it should go back to 3rd ed rules, which had all BA units had furious charge by default, and had every unit roll each turn to see if they behaved themselves or charge towards the enemy. Of course that rule would be modified to suite 7th ed movement, running and charging rules.

Descent of Angels: stays the same. Not broke, not in need of fixing.

Warlord Traits/ Relics: I grouped these together because what Takerukau mentioned sounds fine as is. I can't think of much better to add to these subjects, so I'll leave them at that.

Psychic Powers: say goodbye to wings of sanguinius! I don't see much reason for this to come back. It was a movement phase based power that became broken when 7th ed introduced the psychic phase AFTER the movement phase. If it does come back, it would work most likely as a super 12" run move that ignores terrain. But seriously, what was the use of this power in the first place? So your librarians could have free jump packs? Sure, you could have bike Libby's fly like jetbikes, but this is blood angels, not deathwing or white scars. Flying dread Libby's are definitely cool, not doubt, but has that funny problem on immobilised dreads being able to move with wings ever been FAQ'ed?
In all honesty, I don't see a reason blood angels need their own psychic powers. The ones they already have a fine. Whether that's the case or not....

Dante: either drop his (I) value or drop his unwieldy rule from his axe. His death mask will most likely get nerfed.

Mephiston: although this is highly unlikely to happen, I hope they nerf his stat line to hell. Seriously, the only way he should have the stat line he has now is if he is doped up on psychic powers. Am I the only one who believes that what Matt Ward saying about Mephiston getting souped up after surviving the black rage for over a week is absurd? Such a thing would make Mephiston super strong willed, but it shouldn't make him super saiyan as well. It's like Matt Ward watched dragon ball Z, saw how Goku died, trained to fight in the afterlife, and returned from the dead stronger than ever, and Ward thought, "hey! That sounds a little like Mephiston's backstory. I could copy Goku's improved abilities and apply it to Mephiston too!" Mephiston's popularity is more to do with him being a one man killing machine more than his model or fluff (no offence to those who like the mini and/ or fluff. It's just true). Give him chapter master stats so he is still better than a normal librarian, then have it boosted up with special rules, wargear, and biomancy or any other psychic power you can think of.

The Sanguininor: this guy is unusual as he is a faceless special character in that while cool, has no personality or character. The way he is portrayed is that he is the blood angel equivalent of the eldar avatar. I have no problem with this, and it would be cool to see something similar with other space marines (ie: some generic lost hero HQ choice for codex: space marines), but the problem here is that you have you army led by some uber mysterious, no-name angel that literally flys in at the blood angel's darkest hour. I feel he deserves a lord of war choice more than Mephiston does, although it would be just as preferable if the Sanguinior couldn't be a compulsory HQ choice instead.

Librarians, Chaplains, Sanguinary Priests: apart from some points fixing to keep line with other space marines, these guys are fine. You could move San Priests to a HQ slot as long as you can still have 1-3 as a single choice. Maybe do the same with chaplains and drop the 2 tier chaplain thing they have now.

Tycho: DC Tycho should be able to join death company. Problem solved.

Dreadnoughts: apart from the obvious problems facing Dreadnoughts in general, all they need is a points drop.
Problems facing dreads right now is more than points or stat problems, so this is the best I can offer.

San Guard: most people think these guys need invo saves to make them better. If they do then they become better than Teminators and that is not on. I think they should be 30 points per model and have the option to have 10 man squad sizes.

Sternguard/ Vanguard: will be moved in line with their space marine equivalents. Vanguards would most likely loose their current heroic intervention rule, which is gonna suck. Other than that, they should stay in.

Assault Squads: hard one to judge if they would remain troops or be moved back to fast attack. I would like to see them remain as they are, but I guess with unbound armies, even if they are moved to FA, it wouldn't be that much of a problem (except for those complaining that their assault marines no longer Ob Sec, or can't field all assault marine lists in no- unbound tournaments). Of course blood angels could have a different Force Org Chart with extra fast attack slots if assault marines do become FA. On a side note, most likely expect some assault squad formation.

Death Company: this is also hard to judge, but for different reasons. Whatever form the black rage/ red thirst rules take would heavily affect the death company. Hopefully they will get cheaper. Chances are that the ridiculous squad size gets reduced. Maybe 20 guys max?
Accessing DC Dreadnoughts will change. How I'm not sure. Maybe they will be elites, who knows? I'm not making any calls on how that one will be resolved. Like the assault formation, expect a DC formation too.

Dedicated Transports: just because space wolves have theirs as FA choices doesn't mean the same is going to happen to blood angels too. Hopefully they remain the same. Of course the big question is land raiders. Personally I'd like to see them back as they are with the other space marines, but that will be a hard one to call as well.

Baal Predators: maybe torrent flame weapons.

Stormravens: if land raiders get shafted back to heavy support, stormravens should take their place as a dedicated transport. Okay, space wolves have this, but I feel that air assault tactics suit the blood angels better.

Other things: grav weapons might be in. Stormtalons and land speder storms- Doesn't matter either way if they're in or out. Brand new stuff- I don't think blood angels need brand new stuff. They have plenty of goodies as it is. It's more of a case of balancing everything out. Doesn't mean they won't get new stuff though, but who knows anymore?

Well that's my two cents on this. I expect plenty of complaints.

[MajorWesJanson]

Like others, I'll go through and do the long list:
Special Rules- ATSKNF, Combat Squads, Red Thirst, Descent of Angels
Red Thirst no longer a roll per unit, but a rule similar to Orks- if you roll a 10 or above for your charge, you get furious charge.
Black Rage- Death Company Only- Rage and Fearless , maybe bring must decalre a charge if there is an enemy unit within 12"

Psychic Powers- Gone. Wings was the only unique one, the rest are all minor variants or even direct copies of powers now mixed through the 5 BRB charts.

Wargear:
Death Mask will simply grant fear- basically what it did before.
Blood Chalice- likely will not be a bubble buff anymore, but will grant FNP and Furious Charge to the unit.
Overcharged Engines- makes rhino hulls fast. built in 5 point upgrade to vehicles.

HQ:
Dante- Death Mask and Axe will become chapter relics. Axe will probably become a Power Axe without Unwieldy. Death Mask will probably grant Fear and some buffs in a challenge. I think he will stay a HQ.
Seth- Blood Reaver will be a relic, with the rules it has. Sx2, AP- Rending. Whirlwind of Gore could be swapped out with Rampage.
Astorath- Probably no major changes.
Sanguinor- Will likely gain the rule that if you take a unit of Sanguinary Guard, he doesn't take up a FOC slot. Avenging Angel will likely be reroll failed hits and wounds in a challenge.
Mepheston- I'd bet a L3 Librarian Lord of War.
Tycho- no real changes.
Librarian- copy paste from Codex marines.
Chaplain- Copy Paste from Codex marines. Maybe a Reclusiarch upgrade to give him +1 W and A
Captain- copy paste from Codex marines
Honor Guard- copy paste from Codex marines.
Techmarine- Copy Paste from codex Marines
Sanguinary Priest- same as current entry, but HQ, may take 1 per HQ you take, like Techamrines. Corbulo as either an upgrade or a full HQ choice.

Elites:
Terminators, Terminator Assault, Sternguard all copy paste from codex marines. Maybe points drop for Terminators. Terminators can buy Storm Raven or Land Raiders as dedicated
Furioso, Librarian, and Death Company all upgrades for standard dreadnought. Librarian Dread gets cheaper.
Sanguinary Guard- stay the same as now, maybe a points drop. Can buy and transport as dedicated.
Sanguinary Wardens- potential new unit, Sanguinary Guard in Terminator armor. Can buy a Storm Raven and Land Raiders as dedicated.
Death Company- moves to Elite, stays at 20 points a model, jump packs get much cheaper, say 5 points per model.

Troops:
Tac Squad, Scout Squad, copy paste from Codex marines.
Assault squad copy paste from codex marines, but with melta gun, hand flamer, and infernius pistol options.

FA:
Vanguard Vets, Landspeeders, Bikes, Scout Bikes- copy paste from Codex Marines.
Baal Predator flamestorm gains torrent. Base price drops to say 100 or 105.

HS:
Much the same as now, just Dreadnought removed. Entries copy pasted from Codex Marines to update units.
Land Raiders lose Deep Strike.