When a proxy isn't a proxy

[Xaric]

This might be shallow of me but if you have to resort to proxy's (unless testing a units use) then don't even bother with this hobby the hobby is expensive and if the person you are playing has to fork out all that money time and effort into making his army you should in turn do the same. If you must complain with "But i don't have the money" then don't even start as i said its expensive this hobby and it is a luxury to have.

To me i will only class a model as a proxy
if it does not fit the profile in the rules and the size is unreasonable (being more then 20% bigger or smaller then the model this is to prevent unfair advantage)

Anything else is a conversion in my eyes.

[Psyfer]

Personally, it boils down to the answer to the following question:

'Can it be clearly identified as what it't representing?'

If the answer is yes, then I have no issue. If the answer is no, then you need a better proxie.

As for the 'this hobby is expensive' argument, really? That's elitist BS. Not only that, but it's the same elitist BS GW uses for jacking up it's prices every year.

[Brandon Frazier]

When my group plays, we proxy sometimes if we're trying new models or builds, like I'm going to be starting nids, but I wanted to try them before I buy them. So if you just can't field something, sure why not? If we're at a competition, no, get you're soda cans out of here

[Demonus]

We allow counts as often. Pink Horrors are Plaguebearers. That Daemon Prince is a Greater Daemon. etc.
very rarely have we allowed full proxies. a guy used beer bottles for his drop pods as his dp hadn't come in from Ebay yet. Shame as I had 5 he could have borrowed had he only asked.

[-Tom-]

This is the kind of proxying that bothers me the most. I see a melta now I have to remember it is a plasma, every turn, as does my opponent. At best this is confusing, at worst, it enables cheating.

Surely though, as ideal as it would be to be WYSIWYG all the time, it's just not always so cut and dry. For example, the old plastic Eldar guardians from 2nd ed. came in a single pose, with lasguns. Back in those days, you were allowed lasguns on them, and shuriken catapults were a small points cost upgrade. Nowadays Shuriken catapults are the default and you can't even give them lasguns at all. If you're using those models, and haven't modified the guns, they're not going to be properly WYSIWYG but I also think that should cause much confusion?

Similarly, if you got hold of the vehicle upgrades pack from Forgeworld that fit the falcons / wave serpents, and glue the bits on, what if they you're playing a game where for points cost you need a more stripped down version without upgrades? Does the fact that you've got the bits on confuse your opponent? Should everyone have worked out some way to magnetize them on, or just have bought x number of identical kits all fitted out with different variations of possible upgrades?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that too much of it can be confusing. But, on the other hand, there's also ways to keep it simple, like if you say to your opponent something like "All my wave serpents are the same build, they're all just twin linked scatter, shuriken cannon, and no other upgrades". Then it probably doesn't matter if one of them doesn't have any weapons on the turret at all.


On the topic of proxies themselves, I agree with the general theme of the thread that there is a big difference between a conversion / counts as - "rule of cool" applies here surely? Whereas just using a proxy, like using a shoe to be a wraithknight should be avoided. It might be fair enough as a one off between friends where one is trying to decide if such and such a model is any good, and something they want to buy, but surely it just wouldn't be allowed in a tournament anyway and whatever people decide to allow in their own friendly games is up to them?

[Gotthammer]

Actual photo of BoLS Lounge user Xaric:

[40kGamer]

That pic is priceless.

[Xaric]

well i speak the truth and i am intitaled to my optional you may follow it if you wish or deny it that's up to you because there are people out there who will throw i cant afford it to a video game and pirate it but at the end of the day you dont need said things to live hence why there a luxury.

[cadho3]

I have seen red Solo Cups used as drop pods... I have no problem with that in a friendly garage match. It's a one-time use thing that becomes a stationary object. It also costs a pretty penny to field a lot of them when it may just be for a scenario. My buddy and I have also used non GW minis for 40k because they looked cool. I will try to replace the weaponry to bring it into line with 40k so there's no confusion. In public games/tournaments I don't think proxies are appropriate. Scratch builds and custom models/ conversions are ok as long as they are agreed upon at the outset.

[YourSwordisMine]

I'll just leave this here...