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  1. #51

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    I use a few like this for my boyz instead of the usual buggy, because lets be realistic the current model sucks. I do have a lot of the old plastic war buggies and the footprint is the same even if this one is a bit taller as of yet I have had no complaints from people I have played against.

    Obviously this is more of a conversion than a proxy, but WYSIWYG only goes so far - I have both versions of Ghazghkull Thraka if I tried to use the old one in a tourney I would expect people to be annoyed but following strict rules is legal, I also have all the versions of the Ork Dreadnought/Deff dread RT model is again a lot smaller than the newer ones. If I could use these legally, and I will continue to use my big gunz even though I will eventually get new models, is it fair to complain when someone uses something that is recognizable as what it represents?

    On the other hand I feel that if you are proxying weapons such as the space marines mentioned above you really have no excuse not to at least mark them in some clear way - this is something anyone who plays Blood bowl leagues or necromunda and mordheim campaigns runs into.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #52
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    Counts as I always saw as being the way in which older models without rules could be used in modern 40k gameplay, such as RT Eldar Scout Robots being Counts as Rangers.

    Proxying is the placement of a model for a model you do not have with you with another as an example of something normal and acceptable, a eldar player uses a spare carnifex model as his summoned demon prince or worse yet soda can.

    Heavily converting third party models for use in 40k is something altogether different. i think the greatest thing about third party models is the ability to bring an alternate look to existing ranges (3rd party knight titans/Bikes/Helmets/Guns) and also for the well though out use of extra bits to modify everyday items/toys.

    as an example here's a body I drudged up and used some Aliens toys wings on now, made this a bit ago completely out of spare mawlock bits/glands/etc.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #53
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    My gaming group had a guy show up to a game with a Lego Baneblade tank. All cannons and guns were clearly visible and the base was of the correct size. He did however asked if it was ok to use before the battle began, being lego built not that it was a superheavy. I liked the idea of him using it (besides he is on disability and can not afford such a model). It test our ability to kill it and his to use it in an army. So if it can look like what it is suppose to be, I am fine with it. Just don't use a Imperial Statue as a stand in for a Riptide.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhan Land View Post
    a eldar player uses a spare carnifex model as his summoned demon prince.
    LOLWUT? Eldar don't summon Demons. Even Dark Eldar don't do that. Eldar might field an Avatar, which is roughly the same size as a Carnifex. But no Demons. Eldar and Chaos just don't mix.
    - 40k Eldar, Imperial Guard & Chaos Marines ∙ WFB Dogs of War ∙ WM/H Cryx ∙ BFG Chaos & Imperial Navy -

  5. #55
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    mim
    Quote Originally Posted by GrauGeist View Post
    LOLWUT? Eldar don't summon Demons. Even Dark Eldar don't do that. Eldar might field an Avatar, which is roughly the same size as a Carnifex. But no Demons. Eldar and Chaos just don't mix.


    they do when fighting Grey Knights. .. At least in 4th ed they, havn't kept up with gk since then.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrauGeist View Post
    LOLWUT? Eldar don't summon Demons. Even Dark Eldar don't do that. Eldar might field an Avatar, which is roughly the same size as a Carnifex. But no Demons. Eldar and Chaos just don't mix.
    Eldar can take the malefic daemonology as a discipline... So yes, it is possible for eldar to summon a greater demon at least rules wise.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by btk_kilroy_winterhart View Post
    My gaming group had a guy show up to a game with a Lego Baneblade tank. All cannons and guns were clearly visible and the base was of the correct size. He did however asked if it was ok to use before the battle began, being lego built not that it was a superheavy. I liked the idea of him using it (besides he is on disability and can not afford such a model). It test our ability to kill it and his to use it in an army. So if it can look like what it is suppose to be, I am fine with it. Just don't use a Imperial Statue as a stand in for a Riptide.
    I think that this really sums it up.

    The person/people you are playing with need to be ok with it, and the person bringing such a thing must be ok with being told "no".

    The whole gaming experiance and the "social contract" junk.
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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhan Land View Post
    Counts as I always saw as being the way in which older models without rules could be used in modern 40k gameplay, such as RT Eldar Scout Robots being Counts as Rangers.

    Proxying is the placement of a model for a model you do not have with you with another as an example of something normal and acceptable, a eldar player uses a spare carnifex model as his summoned demon prince or worse yet soda can.

    Heavily converting third party models for use in 40k is something altogether different. i think the greatest thing about third party models is the ability to bring an alternate look to existing ranges (3rd party knight titans/Bikes/Helmets/Guns) and also for the well though out use of extra bits to modify everyday items/toys.

    as an example here's a body I drudged up and used some Aliens toys wings on now, made this a bit ago completely out of spare mawlock bits/glands/etc.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wot he said.

    Scratchbuilds/non-GW base conversions - that's one thing. By no means 100% acceptable (see the goon that used LotR horses with a Bloodletter plonked on top as Bloodcrushers. In a tournament. On the smaller horse bases....) For the most part, that's actually very very cool, and an accepted part of the hobby.

    Proxies? Generally speaking it's likely to be a no from me, but there are exceptions. For instance, in every group there are those who don't have a great deal of money for the hobby. By all means they can proxy in units they're thinking of buying, give them a dry run as it were. Long as it's known what's what - that's cool. Likewise - 'oh FFS, I forgot my Bloodthirster, and he's my General' - much more open to proxies than 'LoL! I summon Daemon Prince, but don't have the model, despite the summoning rules specifically saying it's therefore a wasted casting, I'll just use this glass LOLPOWERGAMER!' That's right out that sort of behaviour!

    Ultimately? It's the 12th Commandment - Don't be a shortened form of Richard about it.

    And in case anyone is wondering? 11th Commandment is 'cover thine own bahookie'
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    11th Commandment is 'cover thine own bahookie'
    This one should have been higher on the list.

    I'm all about the visual aspect of the hobby so conversions or counts as armies that are well done and fit the 40k world are potentially awesome. Saying this Carnifex is a Wraithknight just doesn't cut it for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GrauGeist View Post
    LOLWUT? Eldar don't summon Demons. Even Dark Eldar don't do that. Eldar might field an Avatar, which is roughly the same size as a Carnifex. But no Demons. Eldar and Chaos just don't mix.
    Eldar can summon Daemons in 7th and are actually pretty good at it. Silly rule for sure but perfectly legal.
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  10. #60

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    I'll play against whatever, I am big into converting and having a custom feel to my army, but I don't expect my opponents to have my budget or attention to detail. Bring a list, bring whatever you want, I'll play anything, I prefer to enable games rather than exclude people, 40k players are scarce enough that I'd never turn one away, even the ones I don't enjoy playing against.

    Personally, I love using other models as it adds variety. These days, I rarely go to 40k models first when it comes to new projects. I'm planning on using a Dreamforge Leviathan Mortis (converted heavily to look nurgley) as a Knight Lancer. I have beastmen and early 90's dwarves in my Inquisition warbands, along with Psykers made from Mantic's Ghouls. I'm converting Tamiya's Hannomag model into Tauroxes for my Inquisition Militarum Tempestus and Adeptus Arbites (the Scions are Dreamforge Storm Troopers and the Arbites are converted Scouts). I also do some sculpting and casting, etc.

    There is one set of true "proxies" in my collection, models that are by and large unmodified. My Tyrant's Legion are composed of the Autogun Chaos Cultists, as their ragged style matched the Tyrant's Legion fluff really well. Their tattoos and icons even match the Maelstrom Warders symbols pretty well.

    But yeah, as others have said, what we're dealing with here are conversions, not proxies, here are a few of mine:

    A Daemon Prince (I've since added plague drone wings to him) and Herald on Palanquin
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/mtoKJT][/url]
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/mtoKJT]100_0798[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/43264851@N08/]ianlogsdon[/url], on Flickr

    My MT Scions, Dreamforge bodies with Pig Iron heads and mostly Wargames Factory arms, around a Tamiya Taurox Conversion (I call it the Badab Pattern Taurox, I am working on another one where I'll cast the upgrades so I can make a bunch, as I am using them for both my Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and my Arbites):
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/nxnmg8][/url]
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/nxnmg8]Untitled[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/43264851@N08/]ianlogsdon[/url], on Flickr

    My Keeper of Secrets
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/oYUr2Q][/url]
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/oYUr2Q]Untitled[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/43264851@N08/]ianlogsdon[/url], on Flickr

    One of my Slaanesh Daemon Princes
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/oYUrwY][/url]
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/oYUrwY]Untitled[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/43264851@N08/]ianlogsdon[/url], on Flickr

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